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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Sheb]

Not exactly subtle, are they...

[Knit tie]

That's not art.

[LordSlowpoke]

that's just being a little shit

[Sheb]

Well, everything is art as long as you claim it is. Doesn't mean it's good, clever or not offensive.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

/facepalm
A MASTERPIECE!

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Oh, Russians are offended by one minor well known troll.
All that shit poured on Ukraine in all Russian media is absolutely fine

Meanwhile that is how captured Ukrainians treated by totally non-terrorists

Spoiler: very graphic (click to show/hide)

Damned NKVD descendants

Edit: before anyone asks for source it is a screenshot from that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0X8QUoeESE 

[XXSockXX]

Well, everything is art as long as you claim it is. Doesn't mean it's good, clever or not offensive.

Actually putting people into some sort of cage or container in an exhibition is really common in performance arts.
As far as art goes, without more context, you could interpret it both as anti-Russian or pro-Russian.
Whether it's any good, original or clever is a different matter. Most importantly, I don't think it is very relevant at all.

Also this:

Oh, Russians are offended by one minor well known troll.
All that shit poured on Ukraine in all Russian media is absolutely fine

Compared to Russian "documentaries" on Maidan, this looks really tame. And it's just some art performance, so go figure how influential it will be on the public opinion.

OSCE is trying to negotiate a release of the captured observers. Looks to me like the separatists in Slaviansk are sort of desparate (the city is surrounded by Ukrainian military) and are trying to use the hostages as protection.

There is nothing better than taking german hostages to provoke a violent action in germany.

Never underestimate the Germans' pseudo-pacifism. There's been no real outcry, it was just... reported. Front page news, yeah, but not "They'll hang for that!".

Yup, no outcry at all. It's made the diplomatic situation somewhat more critical, but that's pretty much it.

Meanwhile that is how captured Ukrainians treated by totally non-terrorists

Spoiler: very graphic (click to show/hide)

Damned NKVD descendants

Looks like the OSCE observers are treated better, here with the "mayor" of Slaviansk.

[Knit tie]

Oh, Russians are offended by one minor well known troll.
All that shit poured on Ukraine in all Russian media is absolutely fine

Meanwhile that is how captured Ukrainians treated by totally non-terrorists

Spoiler: very graphic (click to show/hide)

Damned NKVD descendants

Edit: before anyone asks for source it is a screenshot from that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0X8QUoeESE

I am not offended. I just wonder why they think that three guys and some garbage in a fence is art.

[XXSockXX]

I am not offended. I just wonder why they think three guys and some garbage in a fance is art.

As Sheb said, if someone claims it's art, it is art.

You could even interpret it in different ways: Russians are presented as militant dangerous hobos in a cage like zoo animals. That could either mean that they want to say that Russians are in fact dangerous hobos OR it is rather a reflection on the audience who stares at the Russians perceiving them like a dangerous creature in a zoo. That's also why it's art, if you can make up some good-sounding intellectual bullshit, every interpretation is valid. 

[Knit tie]

I've seen worse anyway.

[Owlbread]

The anti-Russian performance was unnecessary and offensive to Russian people and should be condemned, but as Ukrainian Ranger says the guy is a known troll and it doesn't really compare to what has featured in the Russian media lately. Considering that Ukraine is on the receiving end of everything this kind of a reaction is pretty minor. It could be far, far worse.

[Knit tie]

The anti-Russian performance was unnecessary and offensive to Russian people and should be condemned, but as Ukrainian Ranger says the guy is a known troll and it doesn't really compare to what has featured in the Russian media lately. Considering that Ukraine is on the receiving end of everything this kind of a reaction is pretty minor. It could be far, far worse.

As I said, I do not find it offensive, as do not many of the Russians I know. I've seen Russian art that was much more condemning of Russia.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I want to ask bay12ers.

What do you think about general strategy and competency of Ukrainian Government and security forces in all that situation around Slavyansk? I am far from objective being stressed, badly wanting to see that situation resolved  and disliking current government on ideological basis and want to get more or less neutral opinions

[Knit tie]

Your government is even more stressed than you are and at a complete loss of what to do, in my opinion. They obviously don't want to start a war with Russia, so they are trying to get NATO involved instead, and thus their hands are pretty much tied at the moment. Perhaps if Russia condemns the separatists as well, the Ukrainian special forces will be able to do something, but if they just barge in guns blazing right now, Putin will have a nice excuse to launch a hostile takeover of that area.

[XXSockXX]

Well, yeah, as I said earlier, I wouldn't want to trade places with them. Every decision they make is risky. If they don't do anything against the separatists, they might lose control and credibility and increase the chances of some secession actually happening or having permanent chaos in the region. If they send the army or special forces in, they risk people getting killed, which Russia has made clear would be a cause for intervention. So they really can't do anything right.

Not resorting to violence quickly is probably the better option, if they can somehow (how exactly I don't know) achieve that Russia drops support for the separatists, they might be able to deal with them much easier, possibly even get them to disarm. So stationing troops around there might be ok, but sending them into Slavyansk would be very risky. A lot depends on what Russia does. If they don't send any signals that they are willing to accept the government in Kiev or that they drop support for the separatists, this isn't easily resolvable. If they are very very lucky, stuff like the capture of the OSCE observers might cause Putin to reconsider some of his positions, but I doubt it.

So generally I understand how frustrating it must be to just watch the situation without any decisive moves from the government, but I guess being very careful is the more intelligent option.
I guess they hope that with pressure from the West, Russia might eventually make some sort of statement that they won't intervene. If the separatists do dumb stuff like taking OSCE hostages, that might force Russia to distance themselves from them a bit.