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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[mainiac]

Listen. If you want to talk about reality, NATO behaving for the last 20 (and probably more) years is very shitty, and is behaving very similar to russia.

Remind me again, what territories have the US annexed lately?  Or the UK, Germany, France, etc, whoever you want.

[gogis]

gogis you appear to be the extreme between the extremes. I need a new dimension for the chart now.

Which is incredibly funny, because I am most moderate and liberal person you ever can imagine. I keep posting general Russian public opinion and everybody project it as my own. This is insane. But I am furiously against any insults to people, goverment and, especially, myself. Thats a touchy subject.

[Guardian G.I.]

Listen. If you want to talk about reality, NATO behaving for the last 20 (and probably more) years is very shitty, and is behaving very similar to russia.

Remind me again, what territories have the US annexed lately?

The United States sets up pro-American (puppet) governments instead of directly annexing territories.

[miljan]

Listen. If you want to talk about reality, NATO behaving for the last 20 (and probably more) years is very shitty, and is behaving very similar to russia.

Remind me again, what territories have the US annexed lately?  Or the UK, Germany, France, etc, whoever you want.

Annexed? Dude, they fucking invaded/destroyed so many countries in the past that its 10 times worse than what happend with crimea. Same shit, actually worse shit

[mainiac]

Annexed? Dude, they fucking invaded/destroyed so many countries in the past that its 10 times worse than what happend with crimea. Same shit, actually worse shit

And the Russians supported the use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians in Syria... If you are going to do the any bad shit anywhere in the world excuse then surprise surprise Russia doesn't look too good.

[gogis]

Putin's actions is not an answer to "NATO aggressive policy"

NATO is acting aggressive, if you fail to see that it's your own problem. Previously I asked 3 questions and if you can't answer that 3 questions, you can't put agression in quotation marks.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Oh look the thread got all flame-y again.

Hey knit-tie, new title:
!!Post - USSR Politics Thread!!

[mainiac]

NATO is acting aggressive, if you fail to see that it's your own problem. Previously I asked 3 questions and if you can't answer that 3 questions, you can't put agression in quotation marks.

If NATO was out to get Russia then the Russian invasion of Crimea would have been all the excuse NATO needed.

NATO big bad evil thing.  Politician said so.  Politician wants you to vote for him to keep away big scary NATO.  Must be working because big scary NATO hasn't actually hurt you at all.

[gogis]

Annexed? Dude, they fucking invaded/destroyed so many countries in the past that its 10 times worse than what happend with crimea. Same shit, actually worse shit

And the Russians supported the use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians in Syria... If you are going to do the any bad shit anywhere in the world excuse then surprise surprise Russia doesn't look too good.

Do you realize that there is still no evidence to who did that? You know that on wikipedia page for that event link for MIT research is still not approved? And you know what happens in comments?

I will quote

--
The article needs updating based on the evidence from the recently released MIT study, See for example here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/01/15/5488779/new-analysis-of-rocket-used-in.html -Helvetica (talk) 08:32, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

'too short for the device to have been fired from the Syrian government positions where the Obama administration insists they originated.' - that doesn't mean they argue it means regime non[1] -responsibility - a link to the MIT study would be better than 'interpretations' of what they said from pov sources- especially russsia Today, which is a ref at the moment - that is not really a RS , it is propaganda Sayerslle (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
--

Reading that drivel was a joy

[Owlbread]

Though I believe Russia is being extremely aggressive over this issue and is trying to destabilise Ukraine as much as it can to turn the country into a basket case, I'd just like to show you this article to express my anger at the rank hypocrisy of NATO over the Crimean issue and Ukraine as a whole.

Spoiler: That article sums up my attitude pretty well. (click to show/hide)

The wholesale assaults on Chechnya by Yeltsin and then by Putin were treated as a little local problem with support from George Bush and Tony Blair. “Chechnya isn’t Kosovo,” said Blair after his meeting with Putin in 2000.

Tony Wood’s book, Chechnya: The Case for Independence, provides chapter and verse of what the horrors that were inflicted on that country. Chechnya had enjoyed de facto independence from 1991-94. Its people saw how the Baltic republics had been allowed independence and wanted the same for themselves.

Instead they were bombarded. Grozny, the capital, was virtually reduced to dust as 85 per cent of its housing was destroyed. In February 1995 two courageous Russian economists, Andrey Illarionov and Boris Lvin published a text in Moscow News arguing in favour of Chechen independence and the paper also published some excellent critical reports that revealed atrocities on a huge scale, eclipsing the siege of Sarajevo and the massacre in Srebrenica.

Rape, torture, homeless refugees and tens of thousands dead was the fate of the Chechens. No problem here for Washington and its EU allies. In the calculus of western interests there is no suffering which cannot be justified. Chechens, Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis are of little importance.

Nonetheless, the contrast between the West’s attitude to the Chechen war and Crimea is startling. The Crimean affair led to barely any loss of life, and the population clearly wanted to be part of Russia.

The White House’s reaction has been the opposite of its reaction to Chechnya. Why? Because Putin, unlike Yeltsin, is refusing to play ball any more on the things that matter such as Nato expansion, sanctions on Iran, Syria etc.

As a result, he has become evil incarnate. And all this because he has decided to contest US hegemony by using the methods often deployed by the West. (France’s repeated incursions in Africa are but one example.) If the US insists on using the Nato magnet to attract the Ukraine, it is likely that Moscow will detach the eastern part of the country. Those who really value Ukrainian sovereignty should opt for real independence and a positive neutrality: neither a plaything of the West nor Moscow.

If it's too long, even this quote would do as a summary:

The White House’s reaction has been the opposite of its reaction to Chechnya. Why? Because Putin, unlike Yeltsin, is refusing to play ball any more on the things that matter such as Nato expansion, sanctions on Iran, Syria etc.

As a result, he has become evil incarnate. And all this because he has decided to contest US hegemony by using the methods often deployed by the West. (France’s repeated incursions in Africa are but one example.) If the US insists on using the Nato magnet to attract the Ukraine, it is likely that Moscow will detach the eastern part of the country. Those who really value Ukrainian sovereignty should opt for real independence and a positive neutrality: neither a plaything of the West nor Moscow.

[mainiac]

snip

Funny how the strongest critics of the US government are Americans but Russians feel the need to attack those who document what their government does.

[gogis]

If NATO was out to get Russia then the Russian invasion of Crimea would have been all the excuse NATO needed.

NATO big bad evil thing.  Politician said so.  Politician wants you to vote for him to keep away big scary NATO.  Must be working because big scary NATO hasn't actually hurt you at all.

- Russia acted because military tech and production centers in Ukraine are important geopolitically
- There naval base which is important geopolitically
- NATO is a paper tiger in continental Europe both logistically and army composition wise

I am peace loving liberal who is 100% agree with that. And I am sure all points is correct.

[Owlbread]

- Russia acted because military tech and production centers in Ukraine are important geopolitically
- There naval base which is important geopolitically
- NATO is a paper tiger in continental Europe both logistically and army composition wise

I am peace loving liberal who is 100% agree with that. And I am sure all points is correct.

Gogis, can I ask you a civil question? How do you define "Liberal"?

[miljan]

Annexed? Dude, they fucking invaded/destroyed so many countries in the past that its 10 times worse than what happend with crimea. Same shit, actually worse shit

And the Russians supported the use of chemical weapons on unarmed civilians in Syria... If you are going to do the any bad shit anywhere in the world excuse then surprise surprise Russia doesn't look too good.

First, where did I said russia looks good? If I attack NATO, it means I am for russia? The only reason russia did less shit in the past 20 years (and it also did shit) compared to NATO is because it did not have the power NATO did, not because they are good guys.

And also russia supported the use of chemical weapons? What the hack are you talking about? You could find much worse thing to that (if its even true), like thing russia did in chechnya and similar not some talk about syria where it's not even know who used what.

But back on topic. OSCE is not captured at all, and how it looks some military advisers (or what ever they are) from that group that was with OSCE are captured, that are not related to OSCE

[gogis]

snip

Funny how the strongest critics of the US government are Americans but Russians feel the need to attack those who document what their government does.

I can't deduce -snip- because it's derogatory, as any of  your answers to me.