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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[gogis]

Well, Russia has troops right near our borders in big clusters... Surprise attack on those could make incoming war somewhat easier

After all, if You take away elite troops, core of Russian army is a bunch of teenagers who are more busy raping each other than learning how to wage war

>implying Ukraine army is capable of carrying out surprise attacks against Russia
>implying Ukraine army is capable of carrying out surprise attacks
>implying Ukraine army is capable of carrying out attacks

hilarious.jpg

No need to jump on the insult train, Sergarr. UR has invaders in his country, you definitely don't and as such have no excuse for reciprocating his mockery.

/inbeforeban

Oh, poor boy, he poured so much hate in latest thousand of messages and still walk away free.
Amount of hipocricy in this thread is staggering. If you not kissing asses - you are wrongdoer. You and your people can be belittled if you on wrong side of spectrum. If you read blatant lie or see assumptions which is hilarious in nature - you are wrong to even try point out mistakes. Inherently. Close your eyes and abide. People never being in modern Russia have magical full x-ray vision and understanding of every interim problem. They know economy and well being of local populace like it's their own neighborhood. They know every single bit about spetznaz and operate GDP/budget values like you even can compare this things number to number.

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

But if you want really objective and bias free discussion of events you much better of to visit defencetalk. This forum and this thread is devoid of any reality.

[LordSlowpoke]

* LordSlowpoke claps

well you had the balls to say what you think i'll give you that

[mainiac]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

[Knit tie]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

[BlindKitty]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Well, it is a military sci-fi, not a political sci-fi, after all. (Probably my favourite series of books, actually, but it's not the time or place to talk about politics/motivations/economics in them).

And actually, kidnapping foreigners seems like shooting your own nuts foot at the moment; remember what made USA join the World War I?

[gogis]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Thats exactly my point. I always chuckle when Weber goes hard on politics (i love lasers pewpew), but what is happening here is so grotesque and look exactly like in books. I am myself liberal but reading this topic makes me cringe and oftentimes I go tantrum when I see many generalisations and blatant lies and outright insults of my people and our leaders and all other things. If I dislike most of putin politics I don't call him hitler or insane or something like that. I don't generalize and perceive russians as it was made many times here. There is no black and white, it's alot more complicated.
If this forum is mostly liberal, why it's so unipolar? I realize there many non-liberals, but why majority is so hostile and unipolar? Making statements like all media in Russia is propaganda? It's false statement. And it's just one example. Why UR can go gung ho and thats absolutely normal thing? Why isnulting Russia is okay and opposite action is a straight ban?

[mainiac]

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Welcome back?

I liked the part of the books where Weber was pretending he was pretending he was C.S. Forester.  I just resented that I had to get through Webers uninspired tory claptrap to get there.  It's somewhat scares me that someone would draw analogies to the unrealistic nonsense of those books.

[misko27]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Well, it is a military sci-fi, not a political sci-fi, after all. (Probably my favourite series of books, actually, but it's not the time or place to talk about politics/motivations/economics in them).

And actually, kidnapping foreigners seems like shooting your own nuts foot at the moment; remember what made USA join the World War I?

I am sure you are referring to the Lusitania, but the final straw was a combination of the declaration of unrestricted submarine warfare by Germany, and infamously the Zimmerman Note: Germany sent a telegram to Mexico offering restoration of the territory they lost to the US after the Texas Revolution and the Mexican-American war if they would join with them in a war against the US. And that was a Casus Belli if the public had ever seen it, so Wilson was finally pushed into war. Teddy would have had them marching into Germany by the time Wilson finally conceded.

[gogis]

And actually, kidnapping foreigners seems like shooting your own nuts foot at the moment; remember what made USA join the World War I?

I agree, thats why I don't think it's work of Russian spec ops. It's just silly. Compare to how work was done in Crimea, no similarities. Notice also that many separatists doesnt wear masks.

I notice here nobody mentioned that both Putin and Lavrov on many accounts stated that Russia does not intend to annex any part of Ukraine. Especially Lavrov, he was on several talk shows and he expressed alot of points why current situation happened and it's have nothing to do with imperialism.

I am pretty sure they hold hidden agenda about military tech and production in Ukraine not going to fall in hands of NATO but I can only guess.

Also calling separatists 'pro-russian' is a vast exaggeratoin, mostly they are pro-autonomy. And they are minority. Concerned, but still minority. Most russian ukrainians does not want to be part of Russia and vice versa. I am tired of both sides using strong words, which only says about both sides went strongly on propaganda. But for christ sake, where is western neutral media? Why to get neutral(or not so much) opinion I need to open up something like aljazeera?

[gogis]

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Welcome back?

I liked the part of the books where Weber was pretending he was pretending he was C.S. Forester.  I just resented that I had to get through Webers uninspired tory claptrap to get there.  It's somewhat scares me that someone would draw analogies to the unrealistic nonsense of those books.

Because unrealistic representation of there liberal party is so similar to this thread medium.  Which is obviously is not liberal in any sense.

[Knit tie]

You know, atm I am almost finished reading through Honor Harrington series. Yeah, it's mere sci-fi, but liberal manticore party is so much like you, it's funny. Spot on. You don't even have pluralism or free speech. Hugging and kissing.

Man that book had the most hilariously shallow political discourse.  And the whole conflict was driven by an economic crises that elementary accounting identities should tell anyone was nonsensical.

The books are well-written and enjoyable, I myself am a fan, but David Weber grossly oversimplifies politics and frequently uses exagerrated caricatures - one of which is the Manticoran liberal party.

Anyway, welcome back!

Thats exactly my point. I always chuckle when Weber goes hard on politics (i love lasers pewpew), but what is happening here is so grotesque and look exactly like in books. I am myself liberal but reading this topic makes me cringe and oftentimes I go tantrum when I see many generalisations and blatant lies and outright insults of my people and our leaders and all other things. If I dislike most of putin politics I don't call him hitler or insane or something like that. I don't generalize and perceive russians as it was made many times here. There is no black and white, it's alot more complicated.
If this forum is mostly liberal, why it's so unipolar? I realize there many non-liberals, but why majority is so hostile and unipolar? Making statements like all media in Russia is propaganda? It's false statement. And it's just one example. Why UR can go gung ho and thats absolutely normal thing? Why isnulting Russia is okay and opposite action is a straight ban?

So you are saying your entire tirade is just a very fancy way of calling us libertarian communazis? You could've just done that straight away, no need to mince words.

And about "no black and white", you are preaching to the motherfucking quoir here, friend. I never called Putin Hitler, neither did I call him mad, I never recall insulting russians in this thread and, in fact, I am the guy who usually tries to calm Ukrainian Ranger down after he has too much hatorade. He's a lot like you, that's true, and if you were just professing your opinion here and sprinkling it with an occasional insult due to a strong emotional investment in the crisis that's going on like he does, we wouldn't mind. But you keep throwing ad hominems at us like hail and putting very little substance in your posts.

EDIT: Now you do. That's the spirit Bucko! Keep it up and we'll get along just fine.

[mainiac]

I agree, thats why I don't think it's work of Russian spec ops. It's just silly. Compare to how work was done in Crimea, no similarities. Notice also that many separatists doesnt wear masks.

Or it's a deliberate provocation because they want the Ukrainians to give them an excuse for war.  Like I said a month ago, the Ukrainians win if this doesn't become a military conflict.  Putin wins if this becomes a military conflict without NATO intervention.  Both lose if it becomes a war with NATO intervention.

I notice here nobody mentioned that both Putin and Lavrov on many accounts stated that Russia does not intend to annex any part of Ukraine. Especially Lavrov, he was on several talk shows and he expressed alot of points why current situation happened and it's have nothing to do with imperialism.

So the same guys who said there were no Russian troops in Crimea gave us their promise.  Gee, I wonder why anyone is still worried.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You know, I think Russian officials should start using their reputation. Like: "Yes! We will invade Ukraine tomorrow". No one will believe it and the attack will be a total surprise

[miljan]

I agree, thats why I don't think it's work of Russian spec ops. It's just silly. Compare to how work was done in Crimea, no similarities. Notice also that many separatists doesnt wear masks.

Or it's a deliberate provocation because they want the Ukrainians to give them an excuse for war.  Like I said a month ago, the Ukrainians win if this doesn't become a military conflict.  Putin wins if this becomes a military conflict without NATO intervention.  Both lose if it becomes a war with NATO intervention.

Sorry, very little logic in your post.
The thing is if russia wants war, they could already start it few months before if it is in their interest as you are assuming. But it's pretty clear it's not their interest. Putin doesnt need any more provocation to act, that should be clear by now.

[mainiac]

Sorry, very little logic in your post.
The thing is if russia wants war, they could already start it few months before if it is in their interest as you are assuming. But it's pretty clear it's not their interest. Putin doesnt need any more provocation to act, that should be clear by now.

Russia doesn't want war on any terms, Russia wins a war only if NATO stays out.  Putin might have the Russian population convinced but he certainly can't invade tomorrow without expecting NATO retaliation.

The notion that a balance of power exists shouldn't be one that even needs to be explained.  Russia and Ukraine aren't the only actors in this scenario.