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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Sergarr]

"The level of fighting that's going on right now wouldn't even be international news if it weren't for the recent Crimean incursion."

So you're saying if Texas suddenly decided to go independent, with lots of radicals with guns and all that.

That wouldn't be international news?

Or, for example, if Scotland decided to demand referendum by force.

How would that be not international news?

You are funny.

[mainiac]

So you're saying if Texas suddenly decided to go independent, with lots of radicals with guns and all that.

You are comparing low level skirmishes to a hypothetical rebellion by 25 million people with a gdp six times of the entire Ukraine nation.

[GlyphGryph]

Now this is too idiotic a move for the Russian special forces, I bet these people are genuine "militia" radical punks.

Though multiple pieces of evidence have pointed to a lot of them being Russian "militia tourists", of the same sort as the ever-popular British radicals who went to "help" screw shit up in Syria I'm sure, except here the Russian media is actually egging them on.

I suppose it's fruitless to point out that the whole point, as far as PR goes, of Russia intervening on Crimea was to avoid the hundreds/thousands of corpses. Pretty much the best thing Russia can do now, politically, is hang back. Because the situation will devolve into chaos, allowing Russia to effectively say "and this is what we were trying to prevent". Won't do any miracles for PR, but will strengthen public disdain for the West, as the reason for why another intervention was impossible.

The first point is exactly why, if Russia has larger aims in taking Eastern Ukraine, they would be perfectly incentivized to create just the sort of situation that is happening now. Politically, yes, they will hand back, but behind the scenes they are much better off if there ends up being chaos in Eastern Ukraine, especially if they keep things calm in Crimea - they are suddenly justified in taking Crimea (look what happened to the places they didn't take!) and simultaneously have a genuine case for getting directly involved to help control the chaos or, as you said, allow them to blame the west for Russia being unable to stop it if they decide actually taking Eastern Ukraine is a waste of effort.

[Knit tie]

Although you may be right, mainiac, and spetsnaz screwed up and captured the reporter guy without thinking of the publicity that will follow.

[vagel7]

I actually don't get the nerd love that the spetsnaz gets. I mean, those guys use dated equipment and still get praised as the best fighting force in all of mankind from the internet.

Why?

[Knit tie]

I actually don't get the nerd love that the spetsnaz gets. I mean, those guys use dated equipment and still get praised as the best fighting force in all of mankind from the internet.

Why?

Propaganda hype machine.

[RedKing]

I actually don't get the nerd love that the spetsnaz gets. I mean, those guys use dated equipment and still get praised as the best fighting force in all of mankind from the internet.

Why?

Cold War nostalgia?
They're sort of the katanas of spec ops. Cool and flashy, but not that special really.

[Sinistar]

The opening of the Soviet-Afgan war by Alpha group (Operation Storm-333) was/is considered to be quite a successful operation... Then again, I remember reading a very interesting article few years ago how over years since then, the casualties (on all sides involved) and with that perceived sloppiness just steadily increased which each new operation...

But of course, we are talking just one group out of many different that are part of "Spetsnaz" super-group here. And even then, I can't remember if said article even discussed who was supposed to be responsible for those failings and/or why. So, why such praise for Spetsnaz? Dunno. Are they really that good? Heck if I know. I mean, I remember one time I heard one of our army units was training with some American (special) ops and our guys/gals were highly praised...sounds good, right? How much is true, however, can't say. My point is - yeah, propaganda is a cool thing.

IMHO though, it's best not underestimate special ops of ANY country. By default, they do receive more and better training, better equipment and most importantly are more prepared to do things normal army, especially conscripted one, would not do.
Involvement of special ops is bad news, no matter how inferior they seems to special ops of your preferred country.

[scrdest]

It's not even a supergroup. "Spetsnaz" literally translates (after de-WikiWording) to "Special Purpose". You can have police Spetsnaz, army Spetsnaz, navy Spetsnaz, border guard Spetsnaz, internal troops Spetsnaz... and all of those are separate units with separate purposes, although they are all a cut above the regulars.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yep. In fact Russia has sooooo many special units. You see, Putin, as a former KGB agent loves black ops. They are his solution for any problem so got a lot of support and funding. There are many public special units and probably several absolutely secret

Their actual level? As always the best way to determine that is actual combat usage. I think it is pretty high. Not Israel or USA level high but high

Of cause they are not mistake proof. And no special unit can defeat moderately trained men when badly outnumbered or outgunned

[RedKing]

Involvement of special ops is bad news, no matter how inferior they seems to special ops of your preferred country.

Except Luxembourg, of course.


My biggest WTF the last few years has been that Putin essentially has a private Cossack army beholden purely to him. Tsar much?

[Darvi]

Involvement of special ops is bad news, no matter how inferior they seems to special ops of your preferred country.

Except Luxembourg, of course.

That's unfair, they're so good you don't even know how good they are.

They'll kill me for this, but we're about to annex Lorraine eventually.

[Sinistar]

It's not even a supergroup. "Spetsnaz" literally translates (after de-WikiWording) to "Special Purpose". You can have police Spetsnaz, army Spetsnaz, navy Spetsnaz, border guard Spetsnaz, internal troops Spetsnaz... and all of those are separate units with separate purposes, although they are all a cut above the regulars.

Yer, I probably used a bit wonky term...I'll go with "umbrella term" rather. 

Anyways.

Meanwhile, in Horlivka, militias are apparently killing people for flying Ukrainian flags?

Any more info on that? There's news going around about some politicians being tortured to death, what's about that? 


And yeah, Cossacks seem to have interesting position in Russia and other countries...every time I see news involving them, they all seem to be from some autonomous republic or whatnot and have some special powers/positions in society...Another thing I have to learn about, I see.

[scrdest]

Involvement of special ops is bad news, no matter how inferior they seems to special ops of your preferred country.

Except Luxembourg, of course.


My biggest WTF the last few years has been that Putin essentially has a private Cossack army beholden purely to him. Tsar much?

I think it's generally accepted that revolutions in Russia tend to end with the same thing the last system had, just wearing a moustache.

FTFY

[Helgoland]

It was a British monarchy though.

Unrelated: Apparently, a half-English aquaintance of mine has found out she can tap into my liking of the English. That's... a bit worrying.