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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The Chechen are very different from Ukrainians, though.

You mean as we have a lighter skin tone, less hair on our bodies and smaller noses Russian will be more merciful?

[Sergarr]

The Chechen are very different from Ukrainians, though.

You mean as we have a lighter skin tone, less hair on our bodies and smaller noses Russian will be more merciful?

Well I've heard of no Russians which would compare the Ukraine to Chechnya.

[Knit tie]

Nope, it wasn't. Though a bit complicated, as it was an invasion by an indoctrinated nation, whereas WWI was a few nations duking it out, with no clear aggresor.

WW2 wasn't popular in the slightest. People went to it because they wanted to do the right and much needed thing and stop the Nazis, not because they liked the war itself. But, as I said, liking the war itself is not necessary at all for a soldier to have high morale. He can instead believe he is doing a necessary evil by fighting, and that his goals are sufficiently noble to warrant his and his comrades' sacrifice. Again, please look at the Russian civil war and at the partisans in Soviet Union. I assure you, the latter group certainly didn't like war, seeing how it usually took their lands and families from them, but they fought with unmatched ferocity and grim determination because they knew they were doing what's right and saving their people from death.

Speaking of partisans, UR, do you thing these guys, if they ever arise, will do to Russians what they did to Nazis and brutally murder collaborators and blow up hospitals among other unpleasant things?

The Chechen are very different from Ukrainians, though.

You mean as we have a lighter skin tone, less hair on our bodies and smaller noses Russian will be more merciful?

Yes, actually. Chechens had a long history of mutual hatred with mainland Russians, Ukrainians instead have one of brotherhood, barring, of course, the Right Sector and its Russian analogues.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Well, partisans, as a group, are the most likely of a population to do those things. They're the extremists willing to use violence in pursuit of their goals.
What they do as a resistance is the reason an occupation would commit their own crimes- 'justified' retaliation.
And the victims of said crimes will be/portrayed as Ukrainian Nazis or their sympathizers, and therefore not part/deserving of the 'brotherhood'.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Speaking of partisans, UR, do you thing these guys, if they ever arise, will do to Russians what they did to Nazis and brutally murder collaborators and blow up hospitals among other unpleasant things?

Murdering  collaborators is a necessary thing in a war like that

As for hospitals? I'd like to say that such senseless terrorism will not be practiced... But I think it will. And not only in Ukraine, do not get surprised when stuff in Moscow will start to blow up more often.

Chechens had a long history of mutual hatred with mainland Russians, Ukrainians instead have one of brotherhood, barring, of course, the Right Sector and its Russian analogues.

1918-1921 war, Holodomor, post WW2 UPA insurgency, ongoing imprisoning of Ukrainian opposition in post-Stalin USSR, several economic wars during independence times, 2014 invasion.  With brothers like you,  who needs enemies?

Don't tell my myths, I have access to Russian internet and have seen too much hatred toward Ukrainians... I have seen modern Russian films and TV shows were all Ukrainians are bastards, cowards, traitors, idiots and so on

"Brothers", can you explain me - why Poland, Germany, Israel and many more countries offered to hospitalize those wounded at Maydan and provided treatment for free while Russia haven't even offered that?

Explain me, why Poles, who, unlike Russian have real reasons to dislike guys who use red-black flags make songs that glorify the people that died at Maydan and Russian "brothers" don't?

Right Sector? What do you know about the Right Sector that is coming not from Russian TV? I know that every Ukrainian killed will be named Right Sector members because no normal Ukrainian will fire in "brothers"

You, Russians, know nothing about real Ukrainians. That Ukrainian who you believe are you brothers do not exist.  Ukrainians in your mind is nothing more than inferior version of Russians. Exactly what you always tried to create by force-assimilating us. And we are brothers only because you despise other nations more than us. Sorry, role of the least despised national group of "almost Russians" is not for us.

Probably too long and emotional text... But that words of "brotherhood" do make me angry

[LordSlowpoke]

Explain me, why Poles, who, unlike Russian have real reasons to dislike guys who use red-black flags make songs that glorify the people that died at Maydan and Russian "brothers" don't?

pardon me as i butt in before an actual pole does but

russia managed to have a direct effect on the entirety of poland and that's still in recent memory, while the massacres you perpetuated are only remembered by the survivors' direct descendants and maybe a few nationalists so it's easy to marginalize these as being on moscow's payroll

kinda simplified, but i don't think i need to go deeper for you to understand do i?

[Owlbread]

The Chechen are very different from Ukrainians, though.

You mean as we have a lighter skin tone, less hair on our bodies and smaller noses Russian will be more merciful?

There'd certainly be more protests from the Russian public in the event of a war because of those facts, yeah. Ukrainians are people after all. Chechens are just crazy animals that need to be kept under control.

[Sergarr]

Apparently there are some "True Ukrainians" of which Russians know nothing about.

EDIT: OHHHH I understand now what he's speaking about. He's speaking about the Bandera-Ukrainians!

Fuck those guys.

[smjjames]

Apparently there are some "True Ukrainians" of which Russians know nothing about.

EDIT: OHHHH I understand now what he's speaking about. He's speaking about the Bandera-Ukrainians!

Fuck those guys.

Don't some Russians say that the Ukranian language is a bandera (meaning bandit) language? Just pointing out a bit of hypocricy since bandera-Ukranians sounds like it could apply to ALL Ukranians.

[Knit tie]

Chechens had a long history of mutual hatred with mainland Russians, Ukrainians instead have one of brotherhood, barring, of course, the Right Sector and its Russian analogues.

Don't tell my myths, I have access to Russian internet and have seen too much hatred toward Ukrainians... I have seen modern Russian films and TV shows were all Ukrainians are bastards, cowards, traitors, idiots and so on

You mean the ones produced by Putin's propaganda machine in order to bolster nationalism and therefore his support and then justify the invasion that's occuring right now?

"Brothers", can you explain me - why Poland, Germany, Israel and many more countries offered to hospitalize those wounded at Maydan and provided treatment for free while Russia haven't even offered that?

Because Putin's propaganda department wanted to portray the Maidan activists as terrorists and criminals in order to justify the invasion that's occuring right now.

Explain me, why Poles, who, unlike Russian have real reasons to dislike guys who use red-black flags make songs that glorify the people that died at Maydan and Russian "brothers" don't?

We do. You just don't hear them on official radio because Putin's propaganda department wants to portray the Maidan activists as terrorists and criminals in order to justify the invasion that's occuring right now.

Right Sector? What do you know about the Right Sector that is coming not from Russian TV? I know that every Ukrainian killed will be named Right Sector members because no normal Ukrainian will fire in "brothers"

Stuff that's coming from english-language news sources that interviewed the Right Sector members, of course. And yes, Putin's propaganda department will definitely use the trick you described if it ever comes to an outright invasion, because Putin's propaganda department wants to portray the Maidan activists as terrorists and criminals in order to justify the invasion that's occuring right now.

You, Russians, know nothing about real Ukrainians. That Ukrainian who you believe are you brothers do not exist.  Ukrainians in your mind is nothing more than inferior version of Russians. Exactly what you always tried to create by force-assimilating us. And we are brothers only because you despise other nations more than us. Sorry, role of the least despised national group of "almost Russians" is not for us.

Congratulations! Have a "propaganda victim" point! You did it! You now hate Russians! As people! Regardless of what they think and do! Even if they do not support the war, you still hate them! And now, Putin can use you as an excuse to continue invading Ukraine! Because you are now a "violent extremist", an irrational cog in the hate campaign he and his cronies have been running in order to justify the invasion that's occuring right now!

Probably too long and emotional text... But that words of "brotherhood" do make me angry

Words of irrational hate make me angry too. You cannot stop animosity you talk about by propagating it. The hatred that's going on right now is Putin's doing and it will play in his hands.

[Owlbread]

Don't some Russians say that the Ukranian language is a bandera (meaning bandit) language? Just pointing out a bit of hypocricy since bandera-Ukranians sounds like it could apply to ALL Ukranians.

One of the roots of this entire conflict is ethnic Russians in Ukraine not wanting to lower themselves to using such a peasant tongue as Ukrainian.

[Knit tie]

Don't some Russians say that the Ukranian language is a bandera (meaning bandit) language? Just pointing out a bit of hypocricy since bandera-Ukranians sounds like it could apply to ALL Ukranians.

One of the roots of this entire conflict is ethnic Russians in Ukraine not wanting to lower themselves to using such a peasant tongue as Ukrainian.

That's one of the things that led to this conflict, yes, the Russian-as-official-language shenanigans.

[smjjames]

Don't some Russians say that the Ukranian language is a bandera (meaning bandit) language? Just pointing out a bit of hypocricy since bandera-Ukranians sounds like it could apply to ALL Ukranians.

One of the roots of this entire conflict is ethnic Russians in Ukraine not wanting to lower themselves to using such a peasant tongue as Ukrainian.

I kind of view that as being like calling Spanish a peasant tongue, which it isn't. Or maybe a better example would be how the British tend to look down on the Cockney English accent?

Edit: Actually no, wait, the conflict between Wallonians and Flanderians (did I say that right?) in Belgium would be a better example. English's closest language would be German, and while some words are similar enough to understand (some English words actually ARE of German origin, English being the mishmash that it is), they aren't mutually intelligible like Ukranian and Russian are.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Bandera Ukrainian = Ukrainian who doesn't want to be a Russian. 
It's a very simple formula

You see, Sergarr, I know Russia. I know Russian. I read Russian books. Listened Russian Music. Watched Russian films. I know how different you all are. Russian culture is great, but very different to Ukrainian

Russians, on other hand, don't know Ukrainian, don't know our culture (both classical and modern) don't know anything. Yes you don't know us. No matter how many contacts we may have.

We Ukrainians, absorbed so much from Russian culture, it is true. It made us richer. We will stay connected to Russian culture for decades if not centuries, bilingualism will be there. You, despite, living nearby... Took nothing from us. You always rejected that as inferior peasant culture and yet you keep talking about brotherhood.

Knit tie
I can differentiate between cells and the organism as a whole. Russia is a very sick organism while most of it cells are quite nice. As for hate... This song (In Russian) explains what we, Ukrainians feel nowadays. No, it is not hate. It is - "we don't want friends like you." 

____________________
Easter is surprisingly calm... I expected very bad things today, glad that I was wrong

[Owlbread]

I kind of view that as being like calling Spanish a peasant tongue, which it isn't. Or maybe a better example would be how the British tend to look down on the Cockney English accent?

The difference there is that Cockney is just a dialect of English. Ukrainian and Russian are separate fully fledged languages like Swedish and Norwegian or Czech and Slovak or Dutch and German. Probably the closest match in a UK setting would be one of my own languages; Scots, in contrast to English. Scots and English are sister tongues and are very similar in their histories to Ukrainian and Russian. I feel an affinity with Ukrainian language activists for this reason. Scots actually is the closest language to English.

In English we call people from Flanders "Flemings".

Russians, on other hand, don't know Ukrainian, don't know our culture (both classical and modern) don't know anything. Yes you don't know us. No matter how many contacts we may have.

We Ukrainians, absorbed so much from Russian culture, it is true. It made us richer. We will stay connected to Russian culture for decades if not centuries, bilingualism will be there. You, despite, living nearby... Took nothing from us. You always rejected that as inferior peasant culture and yet you keep talking about brotherhood.

This is a natural consequence of imperialism and colonisation. It is evidence to those who doubt that Russia was a colonial power.

Perhaps one of the negotiating points should be that Ukrainian culture and history should be taught thoroughly in Eastern schools so that East Ukrainians know as much about Ukrainian culture as they do Russian.