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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Sean Mirrsen]

Prooflink, and math formula, please.

My understanding is that the claim is based on the fact that the Russian Empire conquered it.

I think the difference is that Crimea, unlike Donbass, actually belonged to Russia proper, previously, rather than a country that was both Ukraine and Russia in principle. It's the difference between the car you lost in a divorce, and the scooter you later gave to your ex because you were still on speaking terms and you didn't really use it at the time. Both were at one point yours, and neither are currently yours, but you have a much better claim on one than on the other.

I always imagined they were shut-ins that lived in their parents basement or in small shack at the backyard they share with old and rusty tractor, with USSR banner and pictures of topless Putin hanging from the wall. It seems to fit their behaviour well.

"Basement" and "backyard" sentiments is ridiculous in ears of russians. 99% live in flats. I can't explain this for you, you can't understand it. Cultural gap of size of Atlantic ocean.

Well, that's not strictly true. Most dachas around here have a "backyard", and even a "basement" - except the "backyard" is actually the main yard slash vegetable garden, and the "basement" is more often than not mostly a cellar.

[Knit tie]

I always imagined they were shut-ins that lived in their parents basement or in small shack at the backyard they share with old and rusty tractor, with USSR banner and pictures of topless Putin hanging from the wall. It seems to fit their behaviour well.

"Basement" and "backyard" sentiments is ridiculous in ears of russians. 99% live in flats. I can't explain this for you, you can't understand it. Cultural gap of size of Atlantic ocean.

Not really, no. The Americans here can understand how we live as well as we can understand how they live.

And please stop arguing about technicalities without responding to the main point of the statement, it's getting really annoying.

I always imagined they were shut-ins that lived in their parents basement or in small shack at the backyard they share with old and rusty tractor, with USSR banner and pictures of topless Putin hanging from the wall. It seems to fit their behaviour well.

"Basement" and "backyard" sentiments is ridiculous in ears of russians. 99% live in flats. I can't explain this for you, you can't understand it. Cultural gap of size of Atlantic ocean.

Well, that's not strictly true. Most dachas around here have a "backyard", and even a "basement" - except the "backyard" is actually the main yard slash vegetable garden, and the "basement" is more often than not mostly a cellar.

Almost none of the basements in Russia are used as residential areas, and backyards are most often communal. It all boils down to us not really having a proper suburbia.

[Darvi]

Half of Europe belonged to Russia at one point, iirc. And to Rome, Germany, the Holy Roman Empire, and some others probably too, unless my history is as bad as I remember it.

[gogis]

Seems similar to what we have in the states with the Fox news types, to be honest - except where every major station is Fox. Ugh.  Not that the other stations don't ever carry water for the administration...

echo.msk.ru
ng.ru

There is one thing you may never understand because you are westerner and narrow minded. There are Russian media which are ... unbiased. These two sources (and there alot more) that are totally unbiased and represent every end of spectrum. On "Echo" you can find videos of Remchukov and Kiselev next to each other.

It's absolute hilarity how you all cite UR sources as truth and russian sources as 100% propaganda. I laugh out loud. So narrow minded. So incredibly biased.

[Darvi]

are totally unbiased and represent every end of spectrum.

I don't believe you or anybody else who puts those words in a sentence without terms of negation.

[Knit tie]

Seems similar to what we have in the states with the Fox news types, to be honest - except where every major station is Fox. Ugh.  Not that the other stations don't ever carry water for the administration...

echo.msk.ru
ng.ru

There is one thing you may never understand because you are westerner and narrow minded. There are Russian media which are ... unbiased. These two sources (and there alot more) that are totally unbiased and represent every end of spectrum. On "Echo" you can find videos of Remchukov and Kiselev next to each other.

It's absolute hilarity how you all cite UR sources as truth and russian sources as 100% propaganda. I laugh out loud. So narrow minded. So incredibly biased.

Now that statement is just delusonal. "Echo" and "NG" are obviously biased, but they are biased anti-Putin, not pro-him, which is why it's easy to misinterpret them as telling the complete truth while it's more often than not embellished/tarnished as appropriate.

And please do refrain from ad hominem attacks.

[RedKing]

Prooflink, and math formula, please.

My understanding is that the claim is based on the fact that the Russian Empire conquered it.

I think the difference is that Crimea, unlike Donbass, actually belonged to Russia proper, previously, rather than a country that was both Ukraine and Russia in principle. It's the difference between the car you lost in a divorce, and the scooter you later gave to your ex because you were still on speaking terms and you didn't really use it at the time. Both were at one point yours, and neither are currently yours, but you have a much better claim on one than on the other.

Of course, before that it belonged to the Tatars, the Mongols, the Byzantines, the Khazars, the Goths, Greek colonists, etc.
Of these, I'd say the best claim is that of the Crimean Tatars, since they're the only group still extant, despite Stalin's best attempts to eliminate them.

Half of Europe belonged to Russia at one point, iirc. And to Rome, Germany, the Holy Roman Empire, and some others probably too, unless my history is as bad as I remember it.

Nah, Russia really never got any further west than Finland and Volhynia. Sphere of influence was somewhat larger, but still confined to eastern Europe.

[gogis]

Peter I the Puny (know in Russia as the Great, God knows why)

Should I post wikipedia link or is it derogatory of some sort?

[Darvi]

Now that statement is just delusonal.

You only say that because you're a brainwashed biased wester- wait damn.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: looks like Crimea is independent from Ukrainian water (click to show/hide)

I think  farming will be as successful as tourism this summer

[misko27]

are totally unbiased and represent every end of spectrum.

I don't believe you or anybody else who puts those words in a sentence without terms of negation.

This get's sigged it does.

[Knit tie]

Spoiler: looks like Crimea is independent from Ukrainian water (click to show/hide)

I think  farming will be as successful as tourism this summer

Did the Ukrainians build a dam or something?

[gogis]

The funny thing is, West was hoping for Russia to go western since at least Peter I the Puny (know in Russia as the Great, God knows why), and it is still what it was back then - eastern barbaria, place untouched by democracy. We all could use a Reagan now, guys. Really.

You speak of democracy like it is the best thing mankind invented.

Why do you hate freedom so much?!?

[/insinceritymode]

People tend to mashup democracy with free market and private property nowadays too much. Everytime I hear "democracy and freedom" I shake my head. Does british people feel offended or not?

[Knit tie]

The funny thing is, West was hoping for Russia to go western since at least Peter I the Puny (know in Russia as the Great, God knows why), and it is still what it was back then - eastern barbaria, place untouched by democracy. We all could use a Reagan now, guys. Really.

You speak of democracy like it is the best thing mankind invented.

Why do you hate freedom so much?!?

[/insinceritymode]

People tend to mashup democracy with free market and private property nowadays too much. Everytime I hear "democracy and freedom" I shake my head. Does british people feel offended or not?

Gogis, that's an argument from 12 pages ago.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: looks like Crimea is independent from Ukrainian water (click to show/hide)

I think  farming will be as successful as tourism this summer

Did the Ukrainians build a dam or something?

The only way to bring water to Crimea is via a channel from Dnipro. And it needs pumps because water doesn't go up without that.
Official Ukrainian position is something like -  there are a malfunction and we can do nothing because workers are to scared to work in a mined area.