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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Sergarr]

They were allowed to do so only if enemy uses lethal arms first no matter what Russian TV may say. Order was to avoid bloodshed.

Well then Russian troops just have to not use lethal arms then. Easy-peasy one-two-threesy.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You are assuming that orders will be the same. I see no reason for that unless our current government are absolute idiots. Even if they are... Then there are a large chance that that order will not be followed by at least some units. Situation is different

[Sean Mirrsen]

You are assuming that orders will be the same. I see no reason for that unless our current government are absolute idiots. Even if they are... Then there are a large chance that that order will not be followed by at least some units. Situation is different

Different how? You mean that for all of Russia's forcefully taking over and annexing Crimea, that situation wasn't serious enough to warrant the response you anticipate? Even if this hypothetical Russian invasion of mainland Ukraine were to happen, I seriously doubt that Ukrainian soldiers would initiate the fighting - because starting a full-on war will quite plainly not end well for them. Add to this the rather inept government they have every reason to be upset with, and the fact that the "enemy" would be just as willing to have everything go without bloodshed... I don't think fighting would start unless some extremist group that would rather die than see Russian people on Ukrainian soil would initiate it. Or if such a group would "spontaneously appear" courtesy of the US/NATO/Russian special ops. Either or.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Well, Crimea is a hemorrhoid that Russia decided to transplant to itself without using antiseptics....

Eastern Ukraine is a bit different story, it is rather important.  And the main reason is that if Russian troops will be allowed to take Eastern Ukraine without a fight we'll see Russian tanks on Polish border few weeks later

Then few years later or even sooner we'll see yet another genocide of Ukrainians by Russians. Any Ukrainian with a brain understands that

I can't count out that liberals will fail to defend the country. Well, guerrilla still remains

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Anyway we'll see what will Ukrainian army do quite soon.

Invasion has started   It is obvious that those are trained Russian soldiers not local protesters

If our liberal government will keep pretending that nothing is happening, then we'll get country-wide Crimea and we can hope only on guerrilla and military units that will ignore order to surrender

[Sean Mirrsen]

Invasion has started   It is obvious that those are trained Russian soldiers not local protesters

Let's correct there - it's obvious that those are soldiers - "trained" is somewhat questionable (I've seen firefighters do a quicker job of entering through a window), and "Russian"... well, I suppose that depends on the point of view, and of course for you Ukrainians it's natural to peg any active soldiers down as Russian soldiers, but okay.

I'll wait and see if our news makes any mention of things like that. It's out on YouTube where Russians can see it, so some kind of comment might be made.

Kinda curious though. What's with the people hugging the wall under the windows? Those aren't soldiers. Portable protesters?

[Sergarr]

They're obviously international observers 

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Sure, sure. Those are self defense squads....

Spoiler: Crimea above, Sloviansk below (click to show/hide)

[da_nang]

Now would be time to send in the military, yes? They've clearly lost all credibility of being peaceful protestors and become full-fledged treasonous terrorists.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Sure, sure. Those are self defense squads....

Spoiler: Crimea above, Sloviansk below (click to show/hide)

The only thing I can think of, for some reason, is "the hell is that gun he's carrying?" Modified AR-15? M4? No gas piston assembly - so not AK family, magazine too far from the pistol grip - not M4 or M16... I'm not a gun enthusiast, but that's odd. You'd think that anyone who wants to misdirect people would use guns that are recognizable as belonging to the other side, in this case AKMs, if we assume these are Russians posing as some kind of proto-Ukrainian "elite protesters". The closest I can pin that gun as is an SVD with a shortened stock - which wouldn't be too odd for some kind of Russian conscript sniper to have, I guess, but it's a fail as far as subterfuge goes - which, considering it's a planned op and not a spontaneous event of some kind, not to mention that the guy has no business being out on the street with an SVD - it's not that kind of weapon.

Bottom line is, I probably fail at gun identification, and even if I'm right it gives no clear direction on who these guys really are - to me, at least. So... *shrug*.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Now would be time to send in the military, yes? They've clearly lost all credibility of being peaceful protestors and become full-fledged treasonous terrorists.

It is obvious what must be done in Eastern Ukraine: State of emergency, Martial Law, move troops in the cities, shot every armed men on the spot

But it was obvious that few days back when those started to capture governmental building that they should be arrested or killed if resisting. Failure to act against the enemy always lead to worse situation

I am starting to believe that Russian posters here  are right, our transitory government is determined to give up without a fight. Nothing new in fact. All those who are in power now, where against molotovs at Maydan offering to sing and dance forever instead

[Loud Whispers]

Bottom line is, I probably fail at gun identification, and even if I'm right it gives no clear direction on who these guys really are - to me, at least. So... *shrug*.

It's probably german then, like a PSG1 or a HK33. If a country's not flooded with Russian weapons, it'll be flooded with German ones or WWII leftovers.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I think it is AN-94 with a silencer and not AK style magazine.  Weapon of Russian special forces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-94

[Sean Mirrsen]

Bottom line is, I probably fail at gun identification, and even if I'm right it gives no clear direction on who these guys really are - to me, at least. So... *shrug*.

It's probably german then, like a PSG1 or a HK33. If a country's not flooded with Russian weapons, it'll be flooded with German ones or WWII leftovers.

It's neither, I checked. The PSG1 has a similar stock, but the scope is too far back and the magazine slot is still very near the grip. The HK33 is way more submachinegun than rifle, it's like a mix between a AK and an MP5. Note: just googling around here. It really looks closest to an SVD, the only thing out of place is the stock - the SVD stock is very distinct, and I don't know if it's moddable.

I think it is AN-94 with a silencer and lighter magazine.  Weapon of Russian Specnaz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-94

Nope, still not it. I checked all AK mods. The shape and position of the magazine is a deader giveaway than even the gas piston assembly.

Now would be time to send in the military, yes? They've clearly lost all credibility of being peaceful protestors and become full-fledged treasonous terrorists.

It is obvious what must be done in Eastern Ukraine: State of emergency, Martial Law, move troops in the cities, shot every armed men on the spot

But it was obvious that few days back when those started to capture governmental building that they should be arrested or killed if resisting. Failure to act against the enemy always lead to worse situation

I am starting to believe that Russian posters here  are right, our transitory government is determined to give up without a fight. Nothing new in fact. All those who are in power now, where against molotovs at Maydan offering to sing and dance forever instead

UR, I've said before and I'll say again. You seem quite happy with the prospect of Ukraine "going out in a blaze of glory", rather than having it survive in any sort of recognizable form and with as little loss of life as possible.

Here, have a trope. It suits you. ^_^

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Going out in blaze of glory is not a nice perspective. But it is way better than slow Russian genocide that is guaranteed if things will proceed that way

It is obvious that Russia will not stop if that giving up stuff will not cease. Than a fan of Stalin, Putin, will do exactly the same thing as his role-model.