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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Ghazkull]

No, there are different situation: Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles are made at Ukrainian factory. They are modernized at Ukrainian factory. They are serviced at Ukrainian factory. Probably we know about that missiles more than Russians themselves.

I am not going to call your bluff here because you are silly. I am already stated in previous thread that I am originally from Votkinsk and if you google it you will understand why I call you silly. Don't spew bullshit even if you can. Those naive westerners may believe you, but I will call your bluff any time. Lies is a lies, no matter how you wrap it.

Wait what now?
Did Ukrainians do maintenance Jobs on Russian Nukes now or not? If they did i doubt the Russians would continue sending their Nukes for maintenance into a country they just mightily pissed off.


Somehow this brings an amusing picture to my mind of a scenario where Russia occupies East Ukraine, Nato intervenes and Russia threatens to uses the red button, with Ukraine just going: "Yeah Nope, you know last time you sent them to us we removed all the igniters...you basically have ridiculously expensive radioactive duds in your silos...heh."

[GrizzlyAdamz]

No, they seriously talk that elections is going to be compromised because east-south is going to abstain that whole thing. Not enough electorate... Go figure.

The irony of Russian talk shows forecasting electoral illegitimacy is...well, not unexpected at this point.


@sunken ships
It's not that hard to un-scuttle ships if they're scuttled with the intent to recover them later-- just close the hull valves (for the life of me I can't remember their names sea-cock?) which one used to scuttle it in the first place & then pump out the water.
The operation would probably be completed within a day.


Soo, gogis, has anyone mentioned double-posting etiquette to you?
It's polite to edit your post instead of making two in a row, saves on clutter.

[Sergarr]

No, there are different situation: Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles are made at Ukrainian factory. They are modernized at Ukrainian factory. They are serviced at Ukrainian factory. Probably we know about that missiles more than Russians themselves.

I am not going to call your bluff here because you are silly. I am already stated in previous thread that I am originally from Votkinsk and if you google it you will understand why I call you silly. Don't spew bullshit even if you can. Those naive westerners may believe you, but I will call your bluff any time. Lies is a lies, no matter how you wrap it.

Wait what now?
Did Ukrainians do maintenance Jobs on Russian Nukes now or not? If they did i doubt the Russians would continue sending their Nukes for maintenance into a country they just mightily pissed off.


Somehow this brings an amusing picture to my mind of a scenario where Russia occupies East Ukraine, Nato intervenes and Russia threatens to uses the red button, with Ukraine just going: "Yeah Nope, you know last time you sent them to us we removed all the igniters...you basically have ridiculously expensive radioactive duds in your silos...heh."

Don't even joke about that. The disabled nukes means immediate war. And I don't want war.

[Vector]

PTW.

I saw something on CNN by chance yesterday about Russia moving troops further into Eastern Ukraine--any truth to that that anyone knows about?  I may have gotten it wrong, since I don't know the regional geography well enough, but there was something about movements that they were worried about.

[Sergarr]

PTW.

I saw something on CNN by chance yesterday about Russia moving troops further into Eastern Ukraine--any truth to that that anyone knows about?  I may have gotten it wrong, since I don't know the regional geography well enough, but there was something about movements that they were worried about.

Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine?
Hmm.

[Vector]

I think it was this.

Sorry for the false alarm, such as it is.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Don't even joke about that. The disabled nukes means immediate war. And I don't want war.

Not so immediate. Forget the dickish nature of declaring war 'because lol you lost your nukes' and that whole can of semi-offensive worms.
Even if every single nuke in country A were disabled, and country B had an overwhelming desire to do 'things' to country A, there'd be no way to ascertain the completeness of the disarmament, and one doesn't gamble with nukes.
It aint (quite) the cold war anymore, people aren't trying to secure a 'winnable' nuclear exchange, (and even then, twould not be the lightest of decisions). Your fear of instant invasion/nuclear barrage if Russia's nukes were to become compromised is kinda irrational.

Even at the height of the cold war I'd put good (on second thought, all) of my money on the powers that be just letting the event slide, and things return to the status quo.

[da_nang]

Armed men are now occupying a police station in Sloviansk.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Today and tomorrow we'll see one more Russia sponsored attempt to recreate Maydan only in Eastern Ukraine. I expect more violence, more deaths but.... That is doomed to fail

All stuff happening in Eastern Ukraine is the same as a cargo cult. They think they are doing the same stuff as Maydan, but it is miles away. Their idea "they captured governmental buildings it worked, we'll do the same" is exactly the same as Pacific islanders idea "we should lit some torches along the runstrip and aircraft with cargo will arrive"

[Sergarr]

So let's see.

The bodycount of Maidan: ~100 people dead and more wounded.

The bodycount of Crimea invasion: 0-1 people.

Why would you expect more deaths?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

No, there are different situation: Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles are made at Ukrainian factory. They are modernized at Ukrainian factory. They are serviced at Ukrainian factory. Probably we know about that missiles more than Russians themselves.

I am not going to call your bluff here because you are silly. I am already stated in previous thread that I am originally from Votkinsk and if you google it you will understand why I call you silly. Don't spew bullshit even if you can. Those naive westerners may believe you, but I will call your bluff any time. Lies is a lies, no matter how you wrap it.

Wait what now?
Did Ukrainians do maintenance Jobs on Russian Nukes now or not? If they did i doubt the Russians would continue sending their Nukes for maintenance into a country they just mightily pissed off.


Somehow this brings an amusing picture to my mind of a scenario where Russia occupies East Ukraine, Nato intervenes and Russia threatens to uses the red button, with Ukraine just going: "Yeah Nope, you know last time you sent them to us we removed all the igniters...you basically have ridiculously expensive radioactive duds in your silos...heh."

gogis is so gogish...

Answering Ghazkull. Yes we serviced majority of Russian ICBMs, Russia produces some stuff on it own, but backbone of nuclear arsenal is made in Dnipropetrovsk and that is the only place that has technologies, machinery  and specialist to service or modernize them. Russia has it's own specialists it is launching satellites in space, sure they can service\modernize\create new ICBMs without our aid but that will cost some $$$ and take time. I don't think they cooperated with us out of charity

So let's see.

The bodycount of Maidan: ~100 people dead and more wounded.

The bodycount of Crimea invasion: 0-1 people.

Why would you expect more deaths?

a) Bodycount of Crimea is unknown. 3 is a minimum. (Crimean Tatar and two Ukrainian officers)
b) In Eastern Ukraine it will not be like in Crimea. Either that terrorists under Russian flags will get squashed by police and\or Ukrainian patriots or Russia will move troops in Ukraine to assist those "protesters".
And that is a hot war, you'll not get Crimea v2.0 even if our Government will give an order to not resist

[Sergarr]

No, there are different situation: Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles are made at Ukrainian factory. They are modernized at Ukrainian factory. They are serviced at Ukrainian factory. Probably we know about that missiles more than Russians themselves.

I am not going to call your bluff here because you are silly. I am already stated in previous thread that I am originally from Votkinsk and if you google it you will understand why I call you silly. Don't spew bullshit even if you can. Those naive westerners may believe you, but I will call your bluff any time. Lies is a lies, no matter how you wrap it.

Wait what now?
Did Ukrainians do maintenance Jobs on Russian Nukes now or not? If they did i doubt the Russians would continue sending their Nukes for maintenance into a country they just mightily pissed off.


Somehow this brings an amusing picture to my mind of a scenario where Russia occupies East Ukraine, Nato intervenes and Russia threatens to uses the red button, with Ukraine just going: "Yeah Nope, you know last time you sent them to us we removed all the igniters...you basically have ridiculously expensive radioactive duds in your silos...heh."

gogis is so gogish...

Answering Ghazkull. Yes we serviced majority of Russian ICBMs, Russia produces some stuff on it own, but backbone of nuclear arsenal is made in Dnipropetrovsk and that is the only place that has technologies, machinery  and specialist to service or modernize them. Russia has it's own specialists it is launching satellites in space, sure they can service\modernize\create new ICBMs without our aid but that will cost some $$$ and take time. I don't think they cooperated with us out of charity

So let's see.

The bodycount of Maidan: ~100 people dead and more wounded.

The bodycount of Crimea invasion: 0-1 people.

Why would you expect more deaths?

a) Bodycount of Crimea is unknown. 3 is a minimum. (Crimean Tatar and two Ukrainian officers)
b) In Eastern Ukraine it will not be like in Crimea. Either that terrorists under Russian flags will get squashed by police and\or Ukrainian patriots or Russia will move troops in Ukraine to assist those "protesters".
And that is a hot war, you'll not get Crimea v2.0 even if our Government will give an order to not resist

Your soldiers do not want to die as much as you'd want it. The Ukrainian army will not fight the Russian one.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I don't want to argue here. I want to ask: why do you think so?
Because Ukrainians and Russians are brothers? Because Ukrainian are cowards? Because Ukrainians don't give a shit about own country?

[Sergarr]

I don't want to argue here. I want to ask: why do you think so?
Because Ukrainians and Russians are brothers? Because Ukrainian are cowards? Because Ukrainians don't give a shit about own country?

Because nobody fired a shot in Crimea, even when they were allowed to do so by the government.
Not even on the captured ships. No one.

EDIT: I don't think Ukrainians are cowards. But I don't think they would want to die for some "interim" government. Which can't even form a decisive answer to the blatant invasion.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

They were allowed to do so only if enemy uses lethal arms first no matter what Russian TV may say. Order was to avoid bloodshed.