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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Ukrainian Ranger]

SUDDENLY
That "huge" group of "protesters'  that captured the governmental building  "created" new independent "Donetsk republic" and asked for Russian military assistance

I hope now our liberal government will do something

[Zangi]

They'd have to be monumentally incompetent to be sitting on their laurels while Russia parks itself on their border and solidifies it's hold on crimea. It doesn't take much to mine pipelines in your own territory- it takes a lot to secure them in an invasion.

I'm saying it's their 'nuclear' option- it's a deterrence against further Russian aggression.
And they'd have to show Russia their trigger finger is itchy if they don't want another 'limited' invasion of the south or east as UR was hypothesizing.

One can't help but wonder... the amount of oil that would need to be cleaned up.... if anyone would clean it up.

[10ebbor10]

The amount of oil would be relatively limited.

After all, these are natural gas pipelines.

((There's oil as well, but that is off lesser importance. And besides, you don't need special infrastructure to transport oil by boat.))

EDIt: BBC article on the People's Republic of Donetsk.

[Descan]

Is the gas liquid or... uhm, gas?

Neither would be great, but liquid at least wouldn't get into lungs of the people who live nearby.

Also if they were to mine and demolish, one would hope they're realize "HEY maybe causing a spill on our own soil (for however long it would be our soil) isn't a good idea!", and cap it?

[Sean Mirrsen]

((There's oil as well, but that is off lesser importance. And besides, you don't need special infrastructure to transport oil by boat.))

Wait, natural gas is lighter than air, right? I know just the thing Russia will use to transport it if it loses the pipelines.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Owlbread]

SUDDENLY
That "huge" group of "protesters'  that captured the governmental building  "created" new independent "Donetsk republic" and asked for Russian military assistance

I hope now our liberal government will do something

Yeah this is really bad. Russia isn't being very emphatic in its refusal to intervene - they still reserve the right to "protect ethnic Russians" and all that.

Some guys I know were talking about the Donetsk interior minister declaring support for Russia. A referendum to join Russia will be held in May. The minister commands 16,000 troops.

[Sean Mirrsen]

SUDDENLY
That "huge" group of "protesters'  that captured the governmental building  "created" new independent "Donetsk republic" and asked for Russian military assistance

I hope now our liberal government will do something

Yeah this is really bad. Russia isn't being very emphatic in its refusal to intervene - they still reserve the right to "protect ethnic Russians" and all that.

Which means that as long as Ukraine does no stupid moves like using force to "squash the uprising" instead of maintaining order and letting the referendum play out - on their terms, with no Russian presence - thus giving Russia an excuse for "protecting the ethnic Russians", this situation will not escalate any further. Ball's in the Ukraine's court on this one.

I guess this kinda means that the Ukrainian government will have to somehow restrain its Right Sector, or whatever the group morphed into nowadays.

* Sean Mirrsen is not really keeping current on the current events.

[DJ]

Puting *will* find an excuse, even if he has to create it. IMO Ukraine should just invite NATO to hold exercises in Eastern Ukraine for a couple of months.

[Svarte Troner]

Anyone else finding it ironic that the leader of this new so-called "Donetsk People's Republic" was a member of a Russian neo-nazi organization?

Spoiler: The flag is really subtle (click to show/hide)

Although apparently this guy has been arrested.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Puting

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit:

Anyone else finding it ironic that the leader of this new so-called "Donetsk People's Republic" was a member of a Russian neo-nazi organization?

Spoiler: The flag is really subtle (click to show/hide)

Although apparently this guy has been arrested.

Well, considering that Russia is now rather firmly Anti-Nazism (biiiig surprise there), I don't think any sort of leader like that would get any traction with the Russian government anyway.

[GlyphGryph]

Anyone else finding it ironic that the leader of this new so-called "Donetsk People's Republic" was a member of a Russian neo-nazi organization?

Ahaha, that would be some amazing irony right there. Remember, though, Nazis are only bad when opposing Russian interests!

giving Russia an excuse for "protecting the ethnic Russians", this situation will not escalate any further. Ball's in the Ukraine's court on this one.

Err.... you know that Ukraine doesn't need to give Russia an excuse for Russia to use that as an excuse, right? See: Crimea, where Ukraine did nothing to anyone and Russia used that excuse anyway.

[Owlbread]

Ukraine is now officially Chernarus.

[GlyphGryph]

Well, considering that Russia is now rather firmly Anti-Nazism (biiiig surprise there), I don't think any sort of leader like that would get any traction with the Russian government anyway.

Putin is nothing if not savvy though. I don't think he'd object to a bunch of Nazis tearing off another chunk of Ukraine for him, so long as he felt he could control and then silently remove them afterwards.

[Owlbread]

Putin doesn't give a damn about Nazis. This has nothing to do with Nazis or Fascists or anything else. This is about Russian Ultra-Nationalism and irredentism being exploited by the Russian Government in order to gain popular support through brinkmanship and to strengthen divisions between Russia and the West.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Russian far rights can be divided in two groups:

a) The ones who think that Putin is a superb ruler
b) The ones who believe that Putin is the first enemy of the nation

All Russian anti-nazism surprisingly applies only for group b. Group a is tolerated if not supported