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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Xeron]

They actually use a more...archaic dialect

[GlyphGryph]

I still believe that the call for help was the Crimeans freaking out after Yanukovich got ousted and the people they didn't support came to power. The Crimeans overreacted, and Putin jumped at the opportunity.

The call from help (from the Crimean "government", anyway) took place after the Russian forces seized power, though. I know I've gone through this timeline with you before (I think in the old thread), so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up again - I thought it had been settled.

While there certainly were individuals who undoubtedly celebrate Russia taking Crimea, and who surely believe they are going to be better off now or feared what the new Ukrainian government would look like, there was never a call for help from the actual Crimean government or any significant Crimean organization - only from the criminals Russian's specifically told to do so, and promised to put them in power in exchange.

[smjjames]

There's also the fact that Yanukovich asked the Russians for help after he had fled the country, which seems to have been the main excuse (or at least one of the loopholes) Russia used for the invasion. Although, whether he was told to do that or did it on his own, I don't know.

[Sheb]

What? No. Yanukovitch actually opposed Crimea's breaking away. I think he hoped the Russian Army would reinstall him, 1968 style, and was quite disappointed when he saw that Putin simply didn't care about him anymore.

[Sergarr]

Yanukovich joined the Gorbachev club 

[mainiac]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/20/international-home/ukraine-provides-evidence-of-russian-military-in-civil-unrest.html

Hey remember those tapes?  Well the Ukrainian intelligence agency has found a dude in them who was photographed as a Russian soldier in Georgia and has now done false flag operations in Crimea and East Ukraine.  Good thing we have old Putin to tell us there are no Russian special forces in East Ukraine.

[Xeron]

Uhhh, Mainiac this was posted a while ago by UR i believe ? It's the bearded special ops guy, yes.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Yeeeaaah, and it's not the best source. Bottom image:
MASK
UNIFORM
GLOVES
AMUNITION POUCHES
PANTS

This does not the same person make.


That said, I'm still inclined to go with 'Russian boots are on the ground'. It sure as shit is the case with 'protest tourists', and doing the same for armed insurgents isn't so much of a stretch.

[mainiac]

Uhhh, Mainiac this was posted a while ago by UR i believe ? It's the bearded special ops guy, yes.

Oh, I've been away for a bit.

[Ghazkull]

So hows the general situation in Ukraine i was out of touch after reading about russians stealing ukrainian tanks...

[Knit tie]

So hows the general situation in Ukraine i was out of touch after reading about russians stealing ukrainian tanks...

No open conflict so far.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Well, that's one way to put it.

[smjjames]

What? No. Yanukovitch actually opposed Crimea's breaking away. I think he hoped the Russian Army would reinstall him, 1968 style, and was quite disappointed when he saw that Putin simply didn't care about him anymore.

Doing that would have required an all out invasion of Ukraine, or at least a coup run by Russian special forces.

[Sergarr]

What? No. Yanukovitch actually opposed Crimea's breaking away. I think he hoped the Russian Army would reinstall him, 1968 style, and was quite disappointed when he saw that Putin simply didn't care about him anymore.

Doing that would have required an all out invasion of Ukraine, or at least a coup run by Russian special forces.

Nobody said Yanukovich was smart.

[GlyphGryph]

Surprising no one, it looks like a lot of the "separatists" in Eastern Ukraine are actually Russians (not ethnically Russian, but legally and geographically).

I think.

I'm still relying on questionable translations here, and can't exactly verify sources - criticisms and corrections welcome.

http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2014/04/21/7023164/

In Dnipropetrovsk region have already paid the money for the detention of eight separatists - 10 thousand dollars each.
Said the deputy chief of staff of national protection area Mikhail Lysenko, - the RFE . According to him, only roadblocks in now detained 11 suspected separatism: Six detainees in the Donetsk region, four - Luhansk one - Kharkiv.

As explained Lysenko, all of them are Russian citizens. According to him, in the course of verifying information about the detainees attempted fraud exposed: under the guise of "saboteur" people tried to pass the checkpoint on the money his friend, a Russian citizen who has nothing to do with the separatists. Information on several detainees tested. Meanwhile, according to Lysenko, data on payments for surrendered weapons yet. As you know, April 17 User Dnipropetrovsk Regional State Administration and Staff domestic remedies region stated that offers reward for arrest of saboteurs and release pro-Russian forces captured office buildings.

Meanwhile, in Crimea:
http://www.unn.com.ua/ru/news/1333772-na-budivlyu-medzhlisu-povernuli-ukrayinskiy-prapor

In Crimea, the Ukrainian flag keeps appearing on the Majlis building. Self Defense forces have taken it down once and broken the flag, but there's another one in it's place.