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Author Topic: The Loanword Thread  (Read 6080 times)

RedKing

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2014, 05:10:52 pm »

There's a similar concept in Polish: literally translated, 'bear's favor'. Something done in good faith that nonetheless and contrary to the person's intentions manages to be terribly inconvenient to you.

It's called karuteene here in Estonia.
And "Karhun palvelus" (lit. bear's favor) in Finland. What can be said, bear likes to help it's neighbours...

No, see, the bear is a globalist plot! Notice how so many countries have the same expression!

...except England, for some reason? If the French fable origin is true, that could explain it :P
No, England probably has some bizarre Cockney rhyming slang for it.
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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2014, 05:58:09 pm »

There's a similar concept in Polish: literally translated, 'bear's favor'. Something done in good faith that nonetheless and contrary to the person's intentions manages to be terribly inconvenient to you.

It's called karuteene here in Estonia.
And "Karhun palvelus" (lit. bear's favor) in Finland. What can be said, bear likes to help it's neighbours...

No, see, the bear is a globalist plot! Notice how so many countries have the same expression!

...except England, for some reason? If the French fable origin is true, that could explain it :P
No, England probably has some bizarre Cockney rhyming slang for it.
It's "biscuits and jam".
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Loam

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2014, 06:52:09 pm »

Conversely, I might posit a loanword other languages should take from English: "whatever." In no other language have I encountered an expression with the same utter dismissiveness as "whatever"; who sayeth "whatever" immediately shuts down all debate and has conquered in the most petty of ways. It is one of my favourite words.
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LordBucket

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2014, 07:53:37 pm »

Konterbier - beer(s) you drink the next morning to counter your hangover.

There actually is an english colloquialism for that. Hair of the dog. Though I don't think I've heard anyone in the past ten years use it. And it's traditionally a Bloody Mary rather than beer.

LordBucket

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2014, 08:07:13 pm »

Quote
Are you saying English need a polite pronomen or just annoyed that it's the same in both singular or plural?

Plural you is technically correct, but is not explicit and rarely used. Yes, if you're giving a speech in front of 100 people and say "you" people understand you mean all of them. But if you're standing with three friends in front of a movie theatre and ask "which movie do you want to see" people are going to assume you're asking the one you're looking at, not all three of them. If you were asing all three, you'd be more likely to say "so what do you guys want to see" or "what shall we watch" or similar. "We" is a good substitute in some cases. But it includes the speaker, and that's not always what one intends. "You are all going to die" is different from "We are going to die." So plural you generally becomes "you guys" "you all" "all of you" etc.

Ustedes is explicitly plural.

Quote
We have "y'all" and "all y'all".

Yes. Which I mentioned. But y'all is at best, informal. It's not something I can say in california without people giving me strange looks.

Quote
I was going to argue that the English needed some informality, not more politeness

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Aklyon

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2014, 08:36:40 pm »

Doesn't everything except california give people strange looks in california, though?
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TheDarkStar

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2014, 08:49:54 pm »

Conversely, I might posit a loanword other languages should take from English: "whatever." In no other language have I encountered an expression with the same utter dismissiveness as "whatever"; who sayeth "whatever" immediately shuts down all debate and has conquered in the most petty of ways. It is one of my favourite words.

What about the German 'egal'? You can say "Es ist mir egal" (it doesn't matter to me), or "Es ist egal" (It's unimportant/irrelevant). There are similar English words, but they are long and unwieldy.
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LordBucket

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2014, 09:08:29 pm »

Doesn't everything except california give people strange looks in california, though?

Reminds me of an old california joke:

If you ask people living anywhere else in the world, most will agree that the majority of the world's strangeness comes from the United States. But if you ask people in the US, they'll immediately tell you it's no, the average american is a perfectly normal, honest, hard-working individual, not deviant or strange at all. But, those crazies in California give them a bad name. If you ask your average californian, they'll tell you that no, they're also perfectly normal. It's Los Angeles that gives them a bad name. If you go to Los Angeles and ask, they'll grudgingly admit that there's some truth to it, but really it's not them. It's people in Hollywood that give them a bad name. And if you go to Hollywood and ask, they'll proudly admit that "yes, it's all us!"

Though I notice I don't hear people tell that joke anymore now that everyone knows about Japan.

scriver

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2014, 01:19:31 am »

Quote
Are you saying English need a polite pronomen or just annoyed that it's the same in both singular or plural?

Plural you is technically correct, but is not explicit and rarely used. Yes, if you're giving a speech in front of 100 people and say "you" people understand you mean all of them. But if you're standing with three friends in front of a movie theatre and ask "which movie do you want to see" people are going to assume you're asking the one you're looking at, not all three of them. If you were asing all three, you'd be more likely to say "so what do you guys want to see" or "what shall we watch" or similar. "We" is a good substitute in some cases. But it includes the speaker, and that's not always what one intends. "You are all going to die" is different from "We are going to die." So plural you generally becomes "you guys" "you all" "all of you" etc.

Ustedes is explicitly plural.

Or you can just look at all three of them? That's what you should be doing anyway if you're addressing them all, regardless of which word you use.
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Mech#4

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2014, 01:38:43 am »

In the movie case, the context of "you" would be determined by the emphasis put on the word.

If you said "What movie would you like to see", it would be more directed at a single person but say "What movie would you like to see" without emphasis would in my experience be taken as inclusive to all those in a group.
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scrdest

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2014, 02:09:29 am »

Simple. 'What movie do you guys want to see?'. And it's used as gender-neutral anyhow.
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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2014, 05:10:47 am »

What's wrong with y'all?
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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2014, 05:37:15 am »



No, see, the bear is a globalist plot! Notice how so many countries have the same expression!

...except England, for some reason? If the French fable origin is true, that could explain it :P

Strangely enough, we don't have that idiom in French.
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Arx

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2014, 05:46:01 am »

What's wrong with y'all?
I'm not from the American South.
I have been known to use the Afrikaans julle if I'm in an informal setting where using plural you is important, but that doesn't work everywhere.
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Owlbread

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Re: The Loanword Thread
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2014, 07:37:14 am »

The word "klette" mentioned in the OP is also in "English" English too, though you don't hear it so often now. It's the word "clot" meaning a gormless, stupid person. Like "berk" and "pillock".

« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 08:41:02 am by Owlbread »
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