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[IndigoFenix]

I don't think I'll add too many default counters, at least until there's a base combat system.  It's easy enough, using persistent global variables, for world builders to create their own where they are relevant.  For instance, Protea's dungeons use an HP counter, and there will be a desert area in which you will have to deal with persistent thirst.  There isn't really any reason to carry information like that between worlds, (most worlds would just have a healing area near the entrance anyway) and it would get in the way of the 'free exploration' theme.

While the 'free' exploration theme is good, even the most enthusiastic player needs something to aim for, whether it's an end goal or a constant goal. Whilst games like Myst and Riven are pure exploration, they have a defined end goal to work towards, whereas boundworlds is endless.

I'd suggest an implementation of global survival systems (maybe basic ones like food to start with), as they are easy to implement and create a good continuous goal - it's also something that can be easily worked into a reward system but doesn't conflict with the idea of endless exploration. You could then expand on this with things like a 'sanity' system which could cause apparitions if it was low, and other such systems that might link with combat.

I know this might sound like a departure from the original idea, but I think it could really give people an incentive to explore to find the resources they need.

Hmm... Well, I could make gates that require you to have collected a minimum number of ontons to enter.  These could lead to secret areas (and associated plot developments or minigames) that are only accessible to players who had either made reasonably popular worlds, or had spent enough time exploring and solving challenges to collect the required amount.  Other world builders could do the same; you simply run a check for the $* variable.

EDIT: The $** variable, actually.  $* refers to the ontons collected in the current world in the current session and can be edited through the code, $** refers to the total amount.

[Retropunch]

I don't think I'll add too many default counters, at least until there's a base combat system.  It's easy enough, using persistent global variables, for world builders to create their own where they are relevant.  For instance, Protea's dungeons use an HP counter, and there will be a desert area in which you will have to deal with persistent thirst.  There isn't really any reason to carry information like that between worlds, (most worlds would just have a healing area near the entrance anyway) and it would get in the way of the 'free exploration' theme.

While the 'free' exploration theme is good, even the most enthusiastic player needs something to aim for, whether it's an end goal or a constant goal. Whilst games like Myst and Riven are pure exploration, they have a defined end goal to work towards, whereas boundworlds is endless.

I'd suggest an implementation of global survival systems (maybe basic ones like food to start with), as they are easy to implement and create a good continuous goal - it's also something that can be easily worked into a reward system but doesn't conflict with the idea of endless exploration. You could then expand on this with things like a 'sanity' system which could cause apparitions if it was low, and other such systems that might link with combat.

I know this might sound like a departure from the original idea, but I think it could really give people an incentive to explore to find the resources they need.

Hmm... Well, I could make gates that require you to have collected a minimum number of ontons to enter.  These could lead to secret areas (and associated plot developments or minigames) that are only accessible to players who had either made reasonably popular worlds, or had spent enough time exploring and solving challenges to collect the required amount.  Other world builders could do the same; you simply run a check for the $* variable.

This is a great idea - it'd make the currency more valuable and give the player something to work towards.

[IndigoFenix]

Added a screen fade effect that can be used for transitions, screen tinting, color flashes, atmospheric lighting, etc.  Basic gate-type sprites will now trigger a fade transition automatically, which leads to an altogether smoother game experience.  (Switching rooms through advanced functions does not trigger a transition automatically, but you can add a custom transition effect yourself.)

[Arx]

I may actually have time to work on this now. I'll probably forsake exact source accuracy ( ) in favour of getting a larger world sooner. There's plenty of cool stuff I've laid the groundwork for.

[IndigoFenix]

Nice.  I'll link the area to one of the directly accessible worlds.

I'm putting together a new central area as per the various suggestions.  The 'Hub' is now going for a more mysterious, empty feel at the beginning, with signs pointing to the different areas.  There will be a city near the beginning, which will begin deserted but as you collect ontons (which I'm mostly calling 'energy from the Void') more people will show up.

There is also an area called the 'Palace of Void', which might be an exploration area or a multi-level dungeon that uses your total ontons as your starting health or something, I haven't worked out the details yet because I want to make something that is intriguing, challenging, and yet does not alienate casual gamers.  There will be some kind of lore going on there as well, which is unlocked as you explore or build worlds.

There is also a Guardian of the palace.  I couldn't tell whether he was creepier with or without eyes.  Maybe a little too creepy, I have to work out exactly what kind of atmosphere would be best.

[Armok]

liking it

[Arx]

Currently, if I change tabs away from the game it freezes except for Escape, which still works.

Also, is there a gateway which goes to the new main area? The exit of my world currently goes to the old one.

Edit: Also, open editing some of the chests to contain ontons, I discovered that this is vulnerable to the good ol' "leave the room, come back in and re-loot it" exploit. I don't want to have to create global variables for every single chest, but I don't want infinite free money either.

[IndigoFenix]

Yeah, still working on that tabs bug.  You can fix it by opening the console (press backslash) and clicking in the screen.

As for the chest issue... There really isn't any automatic fix yet besides adding global variables as you suggest.  My advice would be to either make chests relatively rare, or create very large rooms, which may not be so simple given the nature of your project.  You can create several small rooms in one and connect them using jump blocks.

It is worth noting that no matter how many ontons someone collects, there is a cap on how much they can actually take out of a world, which is the number of seconds they spent in it.

I plan on using the old gate as a new area, so that shouldn't be such an issue.  I do suggest in general to make the edge of your world and the location of its public gate an 'atrium' of sorts using the default tiles, to make transition between worlds feel more natural.

[IndigoFenix]

BW now supports room persistence.  Persistent rooms will retain the same state when offloaded, so you can make chests stay open and items stay collected without having to resort to tons of global variables.  Be warned that all aspects of a room will be retained except for the avatar's position, so you probably don't want to do this for areas that use complex programming, initialization functions, wandering NPCs that can get stuck in corridors, etc.

As with most global values, persistent rooms will reset whenever you change worlds.

[IndigoFenix]

I added a new function to gates that will make creating two-way connections much easier.  First, gates can now act as both entrances and exits without having to create a separate exit sprite.  Second, gates have options to make them 'traceable' or 'returning'.

When the player enters a 'traceable' gate and travels to a 'returning' gate, they can re-enter the gate to return to the same point they exited through.  So if two different world builders create gates leading to the same world, explorers can retrace their steps to return to the same place they came from.  HOWEVER, this only works if the room is not reloaded.  So rooms with 'returning' gates should be persistent, and if the explorer travels all the way to a new world, the previous world's connection will be lost.  The builder making the room with the returning gate can select a 'default' target in case the player arrived through a gate that was not traceable, or the room was reloaded.

This feature should probably not be abused too much within a world, but it is a good idea to put these at the (public) entrances and exits of your worlds.

[Armok]

Wait, you implemented that feature without realizing how perfect it is for making stuff like interiors of buildings only once, or fractal labyrinths,or all sort of other stuff within a world? Just make the actual rom once, and it'll remeebr "wich one" you "are in".

[IndigoFenix]

Wait, you implemented that feature without realizing how perfect it is for making stuff like interiors of buildings only once, or fractal labyrinths,or all sort of other stuff within a world? Just make the actual rom once, and it'll remeebr "wich one" you "are in".

Huh.  Yeah, I guess it could be used for that, although I prefer to use advanced functions to generate fractal labyrinths (see the Mysterious Forest area).  You could even make the rooms be a little different by setting persistent variables before the player enters and having them generate different sprites.  You wouldn't be able to make any of the sub-rooms persistent, but I guess it could be useful for some situations.

[Armok]

well, you COULD make them persistent, they'd just then also appear to be "synced" between the different building that have them.

The persistent variables thing could be especially neat if you do the whole thing iterateivelly, and the thing that changes is what sub-room and internal similar portal leads to.

[IndigoFenix]

So I've been thinking about rebuilding BW from scratch using HTML5, seeing as how the foundations of the game were created almost 5 years ago, back when Flash was the only way to make online games.  Also my programming skills have greatly improved since then, so it could use a rebuild.

The same data storage system will be used, of course, so anything built using the original version will be fully compatible with the new one.  I'll be able to add some new options, though, like the ability to switch between regular gameplay and editing mode directly without having to save and walk to the Universal Gate every time, to make editing less tedious.

I'll do this gradually, in between working on Protea and other example worlds.

I might also add some code in from another unfinished game project that never really took off, the Lotus Project, which was supposed to blend together qualities of adventure, strategy, business, and other genres seamlessly, but kind of fell short because the map and plot generator never worked right.  But if players build their own maps and stories... on the other hand, maybe that wouldn't work well, seeing as how the concept of BW doesn't lend itself well to saving.  I don't know, I'll have to think about it.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about how the game could be improved on a fundamental level?

If anyone was planning on building worlds for the current version, don't let this stop you.  As I said before, I'm keeping the same data structure and basic gameplay, so everything will be compatible.  (With the possible exception of adding in the ability to walk diagonally).

[Retropunch]

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about how the game could be improved on a fundamental level?

I've said it before, but I really think it needs to have more 'structure' to it. Whether that be survival or RPG mechanisms (or anything else) I don't think it matters, but it needs to have a driving force to make the player want to keep coming back for more.

Make the player have to work to build stuff (collect ontons or something), or make them have to explore to survive. On from this, I'd also encourage you to have some sort of 'threat'. I like the idea of sort of 'demons of the warp' that try to stop you from building things to keep it formless.