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Current one, unchanged.

+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.

Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.

I don't know but I want to see the results.

[Solymr]

Yeah, I stated it in the latest handbook cause of the mathematical effects didn't seem fair.

[SOLDIER First]

+1% Crit is +1% chance for extra damage regardless of whether you roll one die or two, though?

[Lenglon]

+1 dmg is a 5% increase in damage assuming a previous damage value of 20. value decreases if you have more damage. breakpoints depending on enemy hp, values in between the breakpoints are meaningless.
-1 dmg is a 5% decrease in damage taken assuming a previous damage value of 20. value decreases if you take less damage, again, a breakpoint-based stat, where sometimes one point is the difference between taking 2 hits to take out or 3.
+1% crit is an average of +2% damage, value decreases if you have less hit, value increases if you have more crit. non-breakpoint based stat, so every single point makes a difference, but none of them make giant differences

+1% hit is a HIGHLY variable value, if you only had a 20% hit chance before (almost never happens, but showing extremes) then it's a +5% increase in damage on average
however, if you had an 80% chance to hit, a +1 hit is worth 5% decreases in chance to miss. this would also apply to crit, but typically crit doesn't reach the extremely high values that hit often does unless someone builds specifically for it, and even then they need full hit to get reliability out of having full crit.

at high hit chance values that are sub-overflow-point (100%) then hit is actually super valuable in terms of reliability, removing risk from a number of engages, because you can KNOW that you'll hit, and take out, your opponent before they can swing back. making +hit actually a defensive stat.

I don't really have an opinion on the change crit given by support discussion, just making sure people don't underestimate the value of hit, cuz comparaing stats based on +%dmg isn't accurate.

[Gaterhyme]

+1% Crit is +1% chance for extra damage regardless of whether you roll one die or two, though?

Not sure this really matters too much since everyone uses two dice, but wanted to try to help clarify: crit is usually conditional upon hitting, which is what rolling two dice accomplishes.

Example:
If you have 50% hit and 10% crit and roll one die, the outcomes are:
You hit normally 40% of the time. You hit and crit 10% of the time. You miss 50% of the time.

If you have 50% hit and 10% crit and roll two dice, the outcomes are:
You hit normally 45% of the time. You hit and crit 5% of the time. You miss 50% of the time.

So the +1% Crit (and crit/crit bonuses in general) is more potent if you only roll once.

[SOLDIER First]

rolling one die still sucks

[Blade Master Model 42]

The main problem that I have with the one roll method is that it syncs hit and critical in a way that doesn't really make sense, and leads to needing weird subrules to deal with.

Sometimes crit values get really, really high, to the point where they can exceed your final hit value. Let's say your character has a hit rate of 50 against a given enemy. Let us also assume through, lets say wrath and a killer weapon and probably a personal skill, that they've managed a final crit rate of 50 against that same enemy. Under a two roll system, you have a 25% chance to crit. Under a one roll system, you have a 50% chance. Because your hit chance is equal to your crit chance, any hit is a crit.

One subrule that I saw to address this issue in the past that, thankfully, no one used, was situations involving more crit than hit were solved... by rolling twice. So if we go back to the scenario presented and add a support partner who gives you +5 crit, your actual odds to crit your opponent drop by almost half. Ouch.

Luckily no one actually does the one roll method as far as I know.

[xelada]

You are right, looking at % increases is probably not best, it easily becomes messy, and calculating the values requires comparing the stat before and after applying. Average Absolute Change (or AAC) is better IMHO.
+1 damage gives an AAC of (1*hit/100)+(2*crit/100) which equals [hit + (2*crit)]/100; #don't forget it increases damage from crits as well as regular hits
+1 hit gives an AAC of damage * 1/100;
+1 crit is where things get interesting: it has an AAC of (2*damage/100)*(hit/100).
You might notice that the crit AAC formula contains the formula for, this simplifies attempts to balance because instead of having to figure out if damage/100 is greater than (2*damage/100)*(hit/100) it can simplify to 1 >? 2*hit/100 (which can further simplify as "hit <? 50").

These three formulae can be used to check when two things are worth an equal amount.
To show this, lets compare +2 Strength (or Magic) to +2 Skill (technically this is +X Strength vs +X Skill):
First we break it down into its effects: 2 damage = 4 hit + 1 crit
Then we convert: 2 * [(1*hit/100)+(2*crit/100)] = [4*(damage*1/100)] + [(2*damage/100)*(hit/100)]
2*(hit + 2*crit) /100 = (4*damage + damage*hit/50)/100
2*(hit + 2*crit) = 4*damage + damage*hit/50 =(4+ hit/50) * damage
hit + 2*crit = (2+ hit/100) * damage

That is a non-trivial amount of algebra, so let us use it in practice: a unit with 50 hit and 5 crit against their enemies is choosing between a Energy Ring and a Secret Book, when should they choose each? If we sub in we get:
50 + 2*5 = (2+ 50/100) * damage
50 + 10 = 2.5 * damage
damage = 60/2.5 = 24
So they should use the Energy Ring if the damage they do to their enemies is less 24, the Secret book if greater, and either if at exactly 24.
If you don't want to remember the full "hit + 2*crit = (2+ hit/100) * damage", a good rule of thumb is that Skill and Strength/Magic about as good as one another when your hit is between 2 and 3 times your damage; adding twice your crit to your hit if you want to be more accurate.

***

You are correct that high hit makes it easier to make plans, however it is worth remembering even with the same average damage a high damage low accuracy can be better/faster in some circumstances.
To explain: lets say you have a weapon that has a 100% chance to do 10 damage, and another that has a 25% chance to do 40 damage; both have the same average damage of 10 per attack, but how long will it take them on average to defeat an enemy with 40hp? For the first weapon it comes out to 4 attacks needed, but what about the second weapon? The answer is actually about 2.4 attacks! This is because of how compounding probabilities work; the probability that you will need more than 1 attack is the same as the chance to miss, which is 75% (100%-25%), the chance to need more than 2 attacks is 56.25% (75% * 75%), and so on. In fact the probability the second weapon takes longer than the first is only around 26%.
This (statistically probable) faster win has knock on effects, it frees up other people to use their actions on other foes, it reduces the number of counter attacks taken, etc.

[Lenglon]

Yeah, i see how when looking at a single enemy, if you have a 4-roll-set of miss miss hit miss, then that last miss gets lopped off. But lets give that same enemy 41 hp instead of 40. The *smart* move is swap weps after the first hit lands, but lets be stupid here and stay on the same wep the whole time.

Your analysis is pretty good, but your formulae dont take into account the breakpoint nature of +dmg. Sometimes it does absolutely nothing, sometimes it makes a huge difference. Average absolute change is a nice stat, but it still at the end of the day is a %dmg stat, not a swingcount stat. And swingcount is what actually matters.

[RoseHeart]

I am making a game with cross-forum achievements for other games. Is this one reasonable?

RED PAINT: Won a chapter in Fire Emblem on Forums, where there were 3 times as many enemy NPCs as PCs.

[Blade Master Model 42]

So recently there's been discussion around Ailment staves, particularly following the buff received to Buff staves to make them more attractive (specifically we added 1/2 MAG healing to each buff effect). Ailment staves cannot be augmented in this way, and are clearly less than effective... when used by players.

As veterans in particular are painfully aware of, enemies equipped with ailment staves are particularly dangerous. Though it would be more correct to say that enemy formations containing ailment staves are particularly dangerous. What makes them so bothersome is their interaction in the action economy. Because its very simple, with their extended range, to place enemy ailment staff users in positions where they can target players despite being part of a separate enemy group to the one that they're fighting, leaving them a handful of turns, uninterrupted and unmolested, to layer status effects on player teams.

Because players seldom have the opportunity to split into discreet battle groups, particularly while retaining effectiveness, and the use of ailment staves ties up resources for healing, as well as generally being outnumbered by enemies, ailment staves are simply more valuable to enemies than they are to players.

Following some discussion in the mechanics channel on the discord, we're considering making changes to the staff formula.

The current calculation for staff hit is as follows: Staff%= Staff hit + [(User MAG - Target RES) * 5] + SKL -(Distance between user and target x2)

Due to the way this is calculated, distance is almost a nonfactor- at maximum staff range under normal circumstances, the range penalty caps out at 30. Because its such a minor factor, ailment users (usually enemies) are capable of standing at the edge of their casting range and send out spells to harass their targets (usually players) with a very slight penalty. The calculation is also heavily weighted to MAG for accuracy, which means that (generally) physically oriented classes are much more vulnerable to ailment attacks. It also leaves SKL as nearly a dead stat for Saints.

After crunching some numbers, and checking a couple different variations, we've worked out an alternate calculation to use: Staff%= Staff hit + [(User MAG - Target RES) * 3] + (SKL*2) -(Distance between user and target x5)

This change would accomplish a couple of things- Firstly, and most importantly, it causes extreme fall off for staff accuracy at long ranges, and is essentially an indirect nerf against enemy ailment users. Second, by increasing the role that SKL plays in staff accuracy and somewhat reducing the reliance on MAG/RES interactions, staff accuracy gets slightly more consistent against different builds.

[Chevaleresse]

I wanna point out that the hit/crit rate calculations in the prior example weren't being done properly. You need to multiply crit by hit to get a "true" crit rate if doing a one-roll method; the correct way to do that is mathematically identical to the two-roll method as discussed long ago in the mechanics example.

I support the staff hit changes.

[Gaterhyme]

Not sure which example you're referring to, but the calculations I showed for one roll were based on the original handbook's suggested formula for rolling hit and crit using one roll. If I remember correctly from earlier in this thread, the rationale Cecil gave was that it didn't feel fair to him that a low roll on the hit die was wasted when it came to rolling the crit.

You're correct that this doesn't result in the true crit rate where crit should be conditional on hit, and I think it's generally agreed at this point that we're sticking with two rolls.

The alternative correct one roll calculation you bring up sounds okay as well, though I wonder if the multiplication of hit times crit causes the loss of granularity. If my hit is 50 and my crit is 41, rolling two dice allows me to crit if I roll exactly 50 on hit and 41 on crit. But if I use one die and multiplication, I won't be able to roll exactly 20.5, so my chance of critting seems the same as if I had 50 hit and 40 crit.

Re: staff hit change, no particular opinion from me here.

[Blade Master Model 42]

While discussing character skills, the possibility of several skills essentially getting two versions (free and cost) was floated. Here's some ideas pertaining to that, more being edited into this post over time until I finish my first pass. Done.

Pros: More variety, allows people to take weaker versions of certain skills if they don't want to give up progression.
Cons: Almost definitely more confusing, and some skill alts might get a little weird.

Spoiler: Anyway, here's Wonderwall (of text) (click to show/hide)

Adept: Free, Chance Effect
After you make an attack, there is a Skill% chance you will get an immediate
additional attack in. This skill does not active on an attack activated by this skill.
Adept+: Cost, Chance Effect
After you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance you will get an immediate
additional attack in. This skill does not active on an attack activated by this skill.

Awareness: Free, Passive Effect
Negates enemy Character Skills, Class Skills, and Personal Skills (but not Faults) while in combat.
Awareness+: Cost, Passive Effect
Negates enemy Character Skills, Class Skills, and Personal Skills (but not Faults or the horseback, pegasus, or wyvern skills) within 3 spaces.

Cancel: Free, Chance Effect
When you hit an enemy, there is a (Speed + Luck) % chance you’ll force them to
skip their counter attack. This can also skip an enemy’s follow up attack against you.
Cancel+: Cost, Chance Effect
When an enemy attacks you, there is a (Speed + Luck) % chance you’ll force them to
skip their counter attack.

Celerity: Free, Passive Effect
You gain +1 MOV.
Celerity+: Cost, Passive Effect
You gain +2 MOV.

Charisma: Free, Passive Effect
Allied units within 3 spaces of your character gain +10 bonus to Hit and Evasion. The
owner of this skill does not gain the bonus. Multiple sources of Charisma/Charisma+ do not stack.
Charisma+: Cost, Passive Effect
Allied units within 4 spaces of your character gain +10 bonus to Hit and Evasion. Multiple sources of Charisma/Charisma+ do not stack.

Counter: Free, Chance Effect
When you take damage from a melee attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance of the
enemy also suffering the damage you took. This does not count as your regular counter
attack, allowing you to still make it.
Counter+: Cost, Chance Effect
When you take damage from a melee attack, there is a ([Skill + Luck]x2) % chance of the
enemy also suffering the damage you took. This does not count as your regular counter
attack, allowing you to still make it.

Daunt: Free, Passive Effect
Enemy units within 3 spaces of your character suffer a -5 penalty to Hit, Evasion and
Critical. Multiple sources of Daunt/Daunt+ do not stack.
Daunt+: Cost, Passive Effect
Enemy units within 4 spaces of your character suffer a -5 penalty to Hit, Evasion and
Critical. Multiple sources of Daunt/Daunt+ do not stack.

Gamble: Free, Activated Effect
You can increase your Critical Rate by 15, but your final Hit Rate is reduced by 20 for
the duration of your turn.

Gamble+: Cost, Activated Effect
You can increase your Critical Rate by 15/25, but your final Hit Rate is reduced by 20/30 for
the duration of your turn.

Guard: Free, Activated Effect
If you’re adjacent to an allied character and they are targeted by an attack, you can
declare yourself the target. This doesn’t take an action, but you can only cover for one
ally per turn.
Guard+: Cost, Activated Effect
If you’re adjacent to an allied character and they are targeted by an attack, you can
declare yourself the target. This doesn't take an action, and has no limit to how many adjacent allies may or may not be covered.

Ignis: Free, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance that you gain half your
Magic or Strength as bonus damage, depending if your attack is Physical or Magical
respectively.
Ignis: Cost, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance that you gain your
Magic or Strength as bonus damage, depending if your attack is Physical or Magical
respectively.

Luna: Free, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill) % chance that you ignore half of
the enemy’s defensive stat.
Luna+: Cost, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance that you ignore half of
the enemy’s defensive stat.


Nullify-: Cost, Passive Effect
Negates enemy weapon's effective bonus against a specific weakness (i.e. Flying, Pegasus, Levitation, etc)
Nullify+: Cost, Passive Effect
Negates enemy weapon's effective bonus (Ex: if you pick Nullify as a Wyvern Rider, Thunder and Bows won’t deal effective damage).

Resolve: Free, Passive Effect
While your HP is at 30% Maximum or Less, your Skill and Speed stats receive a 30%
bonus, rounded down.
Resolve+: Cost, Passive Effect
While your HP is at 30% Maximum or Less, your Skill and Speed stats receive a 50%
bonus, rounded down.

Sol
Free, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance that you recover the
damage the enemy takes as HP. You can’t regain more HP than the enemy has
remaining.
Sol+: Cost, Chance Effect
When you make an attack, there is a (Skill + Luck) % chance that you recover the
damage the enemy takes as HP.

Vantage: Free, Passive Effect
If your HP is at 30% Maximum or Less, you get to counterattack first if an enemy
attacks you.
Vantage+: Cost, Passive Effect
If your HP is at 30% Maximum or Less, you get to counterattack first if an enemy
attacks you, and make follow-up attacks immediately.

Wrath: Free, Passive Effect
While your HP is at 30% Maximum or Less, you gain a +30 bonus to Critical.
Wrath+: Free, Passive Effect
While your HP is at 50% Maximum or Less, you gain a +40 bonus to Critical.

[GiglameshDespair]

Awareness was already excessively good. That awareness+ is so OP as to be laughable

[Blade Master Model 42]

Awareness was already excessively good. That awareness+ is so OP as to be laughable

I would personally consider Awareness to be a bad skill, but mostly because of the current environment in which the game is generally run, I.E the vast majority of enemies not having any skills to be aware of.

But fair enough.