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Current one, unchanged.

+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.

Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.

I don't know but I want to see the results.

[Blade Master Model 42]

Are we ready to buckle down and see what Spies should actually be doing yet?

[Rolepgeek]

Except with crossbows. Your point?

Ballistae would allow the skill to add up to 20 damage.

I don't think Archers have problems with their potential damage on the whole.

Ballista are meant to be fairly powerful realistically, but I see your point.

And I don't know if buckle down is the right word. It wouldn't be that hard, and besides, all that's really needed is for GMs to give a shit about Fog of War.

[Blade Master Model 42]

Well we keep drifting around to other classes, rather than giving the class that needs the most help what it needs.

As for Fog of War, it's not really conducive to a Play by Post environment. Each player has their own line of sight, and no one is going to want to make moves before finding out what another player sees. So the turns would slow to a crawl as each move is processed, new information is reported, and people begin to consider their moves all over again.

For a few turns at a time, maybe. With small groups, maybe. But for most games, it's just gonna be a pain, and won't be used.

[SeriousConcentrate]

+1. The main problem with the Spy, though, is everything it could do thematically doesn't matter. Players already see enemy HP, stats, and inventory, and as Blade said FOW is just annoying for both the players and the GM to keep up with. I would say maybe give it an ability to pass through cracked walls without needing to break them first and flavor it as 'finding secret passages'? Or maybe give them the ability to set traps like the Forest Knight does. I dunno, just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks.

[Rolepgeek]

What about the ability to 'teleport' once per battle? Like a 'I was really here all along!' thing?

[Blade Master Model 42]

I like the idea of spies getting an attack bonus if they move off of defensive terrain to attack.

Or maybe Spies could get Locktouch like a Rogue, freeing up an inventory space and making up for the fact that they can't actively steal like a thief. Flavor it as them having gotten a copy of the key from a contact, or noticing the welcome mat where they hide the spare key.

Once we decide what Spies do, we can figure out Master Spies.

What about the ability to 'teleport' once per battle? Like a 'I was really here all along!' thing?

In a game that relies on positioning almost as much as prayers to the various Random Number Gods? I don't think so.

[Shoruke]

What if they had a reconnaissance-type active skill that allowed them to watch the enemy for a turn, and then grant themselves and their allies a bonus to some stat? (probably evasion)

"The enemy knights all position their lances a certain way when they line up like that. Dodge right when they attack you."
"The archers are aiming high. Be ready to drop to the ground."

[Xanmyral]

What I planned on doing was a basic, communal, spit-balled 'line-of-sight,' which basically amounted to 'you can't see through walls,' except for the spies who has a detection radius of eight/whatever the range is in the book/half skill maybe, no matter what separated them from the target. Granted, I also would of done with only spies seeing/noticing weak walls due to sapper training/general spy-craft.

Probably not transferable to many other games, admittedly, since it's largely GM dependent and I tend to do weird stuff in my games (Tasik, for instance). Would give spied quite a punch and zest though, since with that only they could tell you who's behind a wall.

[Solymr]

Personally I liked the idea that starting a turn on defensive terrain would deny counter attacks :V

Or some sort of conceal/invisibility effect.

[Shoruke]

Do any of the games make use of enemy reinforcements that pop out of forts or staircases or the edge of the map? If so, the Spy should have the ability to tell who's coming from where ahead of time.

[SeriousConcentrate]

I still like the trap-setting idea, and if it's combined with shoruke's suggestion a Spy could actually become fairly useful on maps where reinforcements show up.

*scatters some caltrops at the bottom of a flight of stairs* "Don't mind me, just planning ahead."

For example.

EDIT: And that rolls nicely for Master Spy, since it could have the same thing, but better. Like higher damage traps, or ones that last for more than one use, or maybe he can choose what it does instead of damage (like the caltrops example could lower MOV for a few turns)...

[Solymr]

Like the koolaid man cares about caltrops
Traps are a good idea though if you can bait enemies into stepping on it. Provoke ftw.

[birdy51]

I rather love the idea of traps. They fit in well with the idea of spies being in the know, and then acting on that information.

However, instead attaching them to the character alone; perhaps it would be good to have a series of "trap" items useable only by Spies and the Forest Knight, giving people incentive to try both characters as they are currently sorely in need of love.

[Solymr]

If we go with traps what do we do with the Forest Knight?

[SeriousConcentrate]

Keep him, but give him the same treatment and divide it up thus: Forest Knight can only set traps on outdoor tiles, Spy/Master Spy can only set traps on indoor tiles?

Or we could just forget the FK's trap ability (meaning S/MS could set traps anywhere) and instead just give him an ability that increases the DEF and EVA of whatever defensive terrain he's on by +1/+5 respectively, which isn't bad.