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Current one, unchanged.

+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.

+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.

Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.

I don't know but I want to see the results.

[GiglameshDespair]

Autoequip on staff is a standard thing, I'm fine with that. Difference is theoretically you could equip something you can't counter with (sword v bow, magic v longbow) vs your example

I still don't really like it.
Should you autoequip a weapon you're disadvantaged with?

Thinking a bit more on level 40 stuff, tbh I'm not a fan. This is largely because it's going to promote an unfair balance in the group. Some people will get access to promotion items sooner than others and since promoting early no longer has any drawbacks, they have no reason to not promote asap. That means that not only are they instantly significantly stronger than the others in the party, but they will continue to likely be stronger as they'll have more levels with the extra growth that comes with promotion. It's got no drawbacks and will be straight benefits to people who are lucky enough to get their items first

Edit: to further clarify, it becomes a balance problem. Ignoring the extra growth, promotion is essentially three good levels plus access to better skills, better weapons, and higher support levels. So at that point you either balance around the weaker pcs and let the promoted ones stomp around the field or you balance around the promoted ones and you leave the unpromoted ones doing their best not to die while likely not contributing much.

This is all very true.

Summoners, sages, druids, lore masters and commanders all have to promote as soon as they can, really, to get the full benefit of their class skills.

If you want to limit player power, restrict the rate they get xp. They'll get less levels per map, which makes the difficulty curve smoother.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Spoiler: General (click to show/hide)

In general I'd say changing class names purely for flavor is a good way to cause confusion especially since you can give your enemies good names without changing class names.

I don't see the problem with renaming a few classes here and there. I just don't want samurai and nomads running around in a setting with none of those jobs/archtypes. If it causes a ton of confusion then yeah, I'll definitely revert those changes.

No split growths.

Okay. They've been axed now. I surprised how much people hated the idea, honestly.

edit: on the same token, making ignis Cost makes it kinda weak due to it already necessitating investment in three stats to be effective

Ignis shouldn't be cost for reasons murdoc said

Alright. I think I'm just going to make Ignis Free then, since that's what people generally want to have happen.

"Civilized terrain" seems somewhat ambiguous but I guess that's perhaps something you can just specify on a map by map basis.

Pretty much, yeah. Sell-swords/Fencers supposed to be the urban/indoors equivalent of a Bandit or Pirate, but I don't like the way that their skills are worded. You can easily incorporate forests, hills and water features into a map, but pillars look kinda silly by themselves. Especially if they're constantly separated by 3~4 spaces. Hence why I just threw up my hands and said Civilized terrain. Urban/Developed might be a better term for the entire thing, honestly. Either way I get to scatter around forts, barricades and the kind without thinking how silly the map looks.

Really only civilized cost that has mov increase is pillars for fencer

I'm making some of my own civilized terrain, barricades and forts and the like, so other pieces will have MOV penalties.

I'd also suggest taking a look at the games that are using 1.3 and comparing changes.

I did. Obviously I need to look at more.

Spoiler: First Class (click to show/hide)

That's a huge buff to leaf on the wind wouldn't suggest doing that

Alright. I've dropped that part then.

You've made inspiration into charisma. Not a huge fan especially since shaman has very similar skill and gets a buff from theirs

Well, the Mercenary still gets the +5 Evasion from buffing people. What else could I do to change/improve it? Though honestly the Shaman is the one which should have their skill changed and not the Mercenary, since I pretty much based it off of that. I couldn't think of anything better that ties them back to the sacrifice/paganism thing in the lore.

your modified Dragon Scales seems to render being a Wyvern Rider entirely pointless, unless Fire magic is planned to be super common. As is, that's a pretty narrow category to have bonus defenses against, and the whole point of being a wyvern instead of a pegasus is being generally more tanky than the former

Also as dude who's wanting to play wyvern rider such a niche class skill (made even more niche by promotion stat bonuses... If you want a flying mage hunter, might as well make a Pegasus rider) makes me sad, but the class skill in the book clearly needs to be changed as well. It's certainly a change I can live with, but I guess I figured I'd say it feels like not have a class skill at all.

I also agree with the sentiment that modifying Dragon Scales to give extra RES against fire magic and nothing else is really weird.

Okay then. So obviously I have to change the Wyvern Rider's skill into something helping them tank more. Any ideas? The only skill I can think off of the top of my head would grant extra Defence in melee, but that's kinda lame and uncreative. Alternatively I could have something that involves running off fighting completely alone, but I'm not sure if that is the kind of behaviour I want to promote.

Spoiler: Promoted Classes (click to show/hide)

Firebrand basically has Galeforce, which is questionable, though it has an important caveat, so idk.

Oh yeah nerfed galeforce is still real strong

It's nothing like Galeforce, since Firebrands don't get any extra actions from killing their target. Just the ability pick a new one next turn without losing their attack. Their ability is pretty much:

Code: [Select]

1. Lose attack.
2. Pick target.
3. Gain bonuses against target until it dies.
4. If you killed your target, goto 2 next turn.
5. Otherwise, goto 1.
No extra attacks. Just the ability to be really good against a single target, and a limited ability to switch targets if your old one dies. That's it.

Inquisitors change is more powerful than base and pretty op.

Fair enough. I just don't like the 'once per battle' skills because they seem way too limited and useless to me. What would be a good way to balance it? Drop the number of stored Convictions to 1? Make the Inquisitor unable to counter-attack and/or move the same turn they build Conviction? Just scrap the entire thing altogether and start from something new?

Not a fan if holy guard skill passive healing people

Neither am I, but I'm not sure what to replace it with. It's not a class I'm interested in, so to me they look like Troubadours but promoted. Hence why I'm focusing on the healing.

Mage knight change is not great because it forces them to be mixed basically

I'm... probably remembering the 1.2 days where you got to them through Troubadour, honestly. Where they had a reason to pump Strength and Magic. I'd rather not give them Spear and Magic Helmet back so... I'll think of something to replace it. No ideas are coming to me yet.

Spoiler: Lord Class (click to show/hide)

Lord class I think is missing some points on promo. Only has 11 but then has 16 on promo which I think is too many. (Including con every class gets the same number of stats leveled up)

Well. I literally stole the stats/increases from the Soldier Trainee, Knight and General so... Yeah. Might be a good idea to look those classes over and figure out whether their stats need a buff or not.

Why is the lord a special class?

It's also a brand new class with no feedback for secret reasons, and that's not great.

Would not recommend creating a class without getting actual feedback on the class which is impossible to do without knowing what's going on with it.

Lord is the book's shorthand for Plot Important NPC. The character who gathers everyone together and goes on an adventure. In other words I'll be playing as them. Nobody is going to be more important or special than each other (beyond the usual reasons), and nobody else gets access to the class. The reason I'm making up a custom class is because it'll fit the personality and background of the Lord best. Also, aside from fluff and a single ability which has no direct combat purposes, I've submitted everything there is to the class to get feedback and review. As with what's going on with the class... It's pretty much 'Be very tanky and don't die', which is nice when it's the NPC lord who as it. The class is pretty much a mashup of the Knight and Archer classes, with a splash of Sentinel for good measure.

Spoiler: Level Cap discussion (click to show/hide)

Thinking a bit more on level 40 stuff, tbh I'm not a fan. This is largely because it's going to promote an unfair balance in the group. Some people will get access to promotion items sooner than others and since promoting early no longer has any drawbacks, they have no reason to not promote asap. That means that not only are they instantly significantly stronger than the others in the party, but they will continue to likely be stronger as they'll have more levels with the extra growth that comes with promotion. It's got no drawbacks and will be straight benefits to people who are lucky enough to get their items first

This is all very true.

Summoners, sages, druids, lore masters and commanders all have to promote as soon as they can, really, to get the full benefit of their class skills.

If you want to limit player power, restrict the rate they get xp. They'll get less levels per map, which makes the difficulty curve smoother.

The extra growth is 5%, unless I'm misreading things. In some kind of worse-case scenario, where someone promotes 10~ levels earlier than everyone else, it's only going to be +0.5 to a stat on average. I wouldn't call that a significant boost. You're probably right about people being lucky and getting their promotion items early though. Though I could easily resolve that by only giving out generic promotion items that everyone can use. Then you only run into the usual problems of someone sneaking in at the last moment to nab the item after everyone else does the hard work. Though given the cooperative nature of these games, I'd be surprised if that happened. Plus I'm going to be handing these things out at the start of the game. At most it'd be a map and a half before everyone else catches up.

I really don't like how the mechanics of promoting work in FEF. The majority of players have their class progression mapped out and will never promote early. The extra stats from promoting at level 20 last longer and will do more than a mid-game combat boost. So in my opinion promotion adds nothing to the game. You might as well just hand the items out to everyone once the plot has progressed enough and call it a day. This way should at least get people thinking 'Is it worth it going for the item as an optional objective that could get us kill?' or 'Should we blow all of our money on an item to promote the character with the awesome abilities or not?'.

Edit: to further clarify, it becomes a balance problem. Ignoring the extra growth, promotion is essentially three good levels plus access to better skills, better weapons, and higher support levels. So at that point you either balance around the weaker pcs and let the promoted ones stomp around the field or you balance around the promoted ones and you leave the unpromoted ones doing their best not to die while likely not contributing much.

That's... Right. I forgot how much stats you actually gain from promotion. Fuck. I need to think this out some more.

Hopefully I got to everybody and didn't sound too hostile/aggressive. I had a lot of posts to wade through after all, so I'm not too sure about either. Still, the amount of discussion is good. I don't want my first attempt at a FEF to crash and die out of the starting gate.

[SeriousConcentrate]

I'm surprised everyone hated split growths, too.

[GiglameshDespair]

I don't personally have a problem with renaming, but stand by for utmost confusion sometimes.

Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.

[Swordstar]

Class name is more a personal preference so ignore that. Missed the bonus from merc skill so ignore that. My first interpretation of firebrand skill was right so ignore that. Lord class is still eh. Not a fan of having things revolve around super important npc. Tends to lead to railroaded plot.

Wyvern skill could stay as 1.3 but only when mounted maybe?

[Chevaleresse]

ah, i misread the firebrand skill. I thought it was "designate a target and still attack after killing your last one" which is p much Galeforce and therefore OP.

@split growths: it's not that i hate them, really, they're just very exploitable and tend to skew the balance of classes toward mixed ones being just better.

[GiglameshDespair]

The advantage of a split class is flexibility.
The advantage of a straight class is power.

[Criptfeind]

Well, to put in my like, .5 cents on a few things in a positive way, I for one like the change to shaman and think it's fine that it's a buff totem and don't think it makes it too overlappy with another buff totem class that buffs other things and otherwise fills a very different combat roll.

I think name changes are fine. I think we can give people a bit of credit when it comes to being too confused. On the other hand I also don't think they actually matter that much since there doesn't need to be a connection between what your class is named and what your character is. I mean, for some people like priests or shaman it helps because the mechanics directly support the fluff. But a mercenary or a nomad doesn't need to actually be a mercenary or nomad in the game.


About Wyvern skill, +5 DEF/RES when at full health feels very strong to me. But I have no idea.

On split growths, uh.. Very strong. Much power. No sacrifice. Wow. Could be okay or not depending on what chu want. I don't mind ether way in a game.

[Chevaleresse]

The advantage of a split class is flexibility.
The advantage of a straight class is power.

well, yeah. Split growth bonuses make it so you get flexibility and lose... nothing, because your stats aren't actually going to be much lower than someone who just put everything into one stat.

[SeriousConcentrate]

Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.

What about a temporary bonus if they kill an enemy? Like the next round they have +15 Hit, +2 DAM, and +5 Crit. Then the second round after they have +15 HIT and +2 DAM and the third round after they only have +15 HIT. The bonuses would reset rather than stack if they manage to kill another in the same time frame. And said bonuses are just an example, they can be nerfed or buffed or whatever.

[Blade Master Model 42]

The advantage of a split class is flexibility.
The advantage of a straight class is power.

well, yeah. Split growth bonuses make it so you get flexibility and lose... nothing, because your stats aren't actually going to be much lower than someone who just put everything into one stat.

Essentially my problem with it, yeah.

[Swordstar]

Can we just... Maybe come up with something other than horse archer? That's the only one that really bugs me >_>

[Blade Master Model 42]

Bow Knight maybe?

[USEC_OFFICER]

Thinking on it, I'd say shamans giving +10 crit and dg, and befitting themselves - is really good. 10 crit is a big thing. It doesn't really feel like sacrifice or pagan flavoured, either - it's just a crit boost.
If you want something to do with sacrifice... why not have them sacrifice? Damage themselves to grant something to an ally - damage or crit. Would also have nice synergy with summoners.

Yeah, I was thinking about something like that. Absolutely no clue how to balance it properly though, hence why I didn't follow through on my ideas. Losing X HP to increase an ally's damage by X for a turn is an option. Make the largest value X can be 5 or something, so that people don't abuse it horribly. That could work. Or lose 5 HP and grant 20 crit or something. Any preference as to which stat it should buff?

What about a temporary bonus if they kill an enemy? Like the next round they have +15 Hit, +2 DAM, and +5 Crit. Then the second round after they have +15 HIT and +2 DAM and the third round after they only have +15 HIT. The bonuses would reset rather than stack if they manage to kill another in the same time frame. And said bonuses are just an example, they can be nerfed or buffed or whatever.

That's also a good idea for Shaman. Allow the option to transfer the buffs to someone else too, just to spread the love around. The only problem I can see is with chaining kills so that the decay never becomes a major factor in battle.

Lord class is still eh. Not a fan of having things revolve around super important npc. Tends to lead to railroaded plot.

Eh as in you don't like the concept or Eh as in it's an imbalanced and terrible class? I can tolerate the former, honestly. _{Because I know how linear my plot is and am fine with that. I am pretty much copying a real-life event here, though edited to have a victorious/satisfying conclusion. So it is going to be quite linear, sorry.}

Wyvern skill could stay as 1.3 but only when mounted maybe?

So +5 Defence and Resistance when the Wyvern is exactly one HP below the maximum? More seriously: +5 Defence/Resistance while at full HP might be a good idea, now that I'm thinking about it. I originally thought it was too limited, but if you have a pocket priest to follow you around or some potions to gulp it might be pretty useful.

Can we just... Maybe come up with something other than horse archer? That's the only one that really bugs me >_>

I don't see the problem with it. It's the usual name for dudes who ride horses and shoot arrows at the same time. Unless I'm missing something here?

[SOLDIER First]

Mounted archer might be a less awkward name?