Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kaijyuu]

It'd be great for the police when they can match it to the victim.

[Kedly]

Although given the chances of anyone actually altering their opinions via online debate, it probably doesn't make much difference anyway.

Was waiting for someone to post something like this.


If we don't have any hope of anyone changing any opinions or bringing any facts to light, then there's literally no good reason to discuss things in the first place. The entire exercise becomes one of posturing; a competition to see who can be Right and feel superior to others, and who can be Wrong and looked down upon. Those sorts of discussions are toxic and have no place here.

I personally enjoy the discussions so I can see the opposing viewpoints, not for changing them. Although thats also why I dont actually post anything, that, and I never feel I have anything to contibute

[Gunner-Chan]

What if I describe the beating in all of it's graphic detail?

I think you're writing fanfiction at that point. Of the message boards. In the middle of a discussion.

[Vector]

Although given the chances of anyone actually altering their opinions via online debate, it probably doesn't make much difference anyway.

Was waiting for someone to post something like this.


If we don't have any hope of anyone changing any opinions or bringing any facts to light, then there's literally no good reason to discuss things in the first place. The entire exercise becomes one of posturing; a competition to see who can be Right and feel superior to others, and who can be Wrong and looked down upon. Those sorts of discussions are toxic and have no place here.

But I got most of my education in not being a bigot through online forums?

I swear I'm not doing any of this to posture, you guys ._.  I'm not looking down on anyone (kind of learned through the years that I'm still learning, too), I'm just really mad.

It depends on what your goal is. If the desired end is to get the person to change their views, then civility and evidence will work better than anger and evidence.

Is that really true, though?  This is an honest question--I found that anger + evidence worked much better in my own learning process.  Having someone say "you're being a racist asshole" was unusually effective in cutting through my bullshit.

And I may be an outlier, but I'm curious as to other people's experiences with large shifts in worldview--what set them off, for you?  Emotional shock, or was it a slow, gradual change?

[smirk]

Although given the chances of anyone actually altering their opinions via online debate, it probably doesn't make much difference anyway.

Was waiting for someone to post something like this.


If we don't have any hope of anyone changing any opinions or bringing any facts to light, then there's literally no good reason to discuss things in the first place. The entire exercise becomes one of posturing; a competition to see who can be Right and feel superior to others, and who can be Wrong and looked down upon. Those sorts of discussions are toxic and have no place here.

Agreed, actually, and point ceded. I'm just feeling particularly dour today; hence the dig at optimism. My first paragraph is the important one.

[Kedly]

Although given the chances of anyone actually altering their opinions via online debate, it probably doesn't make much difference anyway.

Was waiting for someone to post something like this.


If we don't have any hope of anyone changing any opinions or bringing any facts to light, then there's literally no good reason to discuss things in the first place. The entire exercise becomes one of posturing; a competition to see who can be Right and feel superior to others, and who can be Wrong and looked down upon. Those sorts of discussions are toxic and have no place here.

But I got most of my education in not being a bigot through online forums?

I swear I'm not doing any of this to posture, you guys ._.  I'm not looking down on anyone (kind of learned through the years that I'm still learning, too), I'm just really mad.

It depends on what your goal is. If the desired end is to get the person to change their views, then civility and evidence will work better than anger and evidence.

Is that really true, though?  This is an honest question--I found that anger + evidence worked much better in my own learning process.  Having someone say "you're being a racist asshole" was unusually effective in cutting through my bullshit.

And I may be an outlier, but I'm curious as to other people's experiences with large shifts in worldview--what set them off, for you?  Emotional shock, or was it a slow, gradual change?

I myself am likely to see and accept a viewpoint based on how much sense it makes, whether it was brought to me in civility or agression doesnt matter as much. That being said, I will take the time to think over that viewpoint faster if it is brought to me in a civil manner. I do think agression makes a person less likely to see that viewpoint though as they end up getting defensive and stop actually listening to the aggressor

[kaijyuu]

But I got most of my education in not being a bigot through online forums?

Well yeah, I believe that discussions on online forums can be beneficial. We can learn things; we can change opinions. It really isn't all about posturing... except for those with a dismissive and defeatist attitude.

I swear I'm not doing any of this to posture, you guys ._.  I'm not looking down on anyone (kind of learned through the years that I'm still learning, too), I'm just really mad.

* kaijyuu hugs

I don't believe you are doing it to posture If I have any criticisms toward you in particular, it's pretty much entirely ones of practicality toward reaching your goals.

It depends on what your goal is. If the desired end is to get the person to change their views, then civility and evidence will work better than anger and evidence.

Is that really true, though?  This is an honest question--I found that anger + evidence worked much better in my own learning process.  Having someone say "you're being a racist asshole" was unusually effective in cutting through my bullshit.

And I may be an outlier, but I'm curious as to other people's experiences with large shifts in worldview--what set them off, for you?  Emotional shock, or was it a slow, gradual change?

A mix for me. Notably the more aggressive criticisms only worked on me if I already respected the person telling them to me. A random person I barely knew would just be dismissed if they were being abrasive.

Most my life changing moments came from making mistakes, feeling awful afterward, and doing better from then on.

[smirk]

A mix for me. Notably the more aggressive criticisms only worked on me if I already respected the person telling them to me. A random person I barely knew would just be dismissed if they were being abrasive.

This sums up what I was just about to post, better than what I was just about to post =P  Both have worked for and to me, but one more often than the other. So I try to default to that one.

And I'm gonna bow out, because there's no keeping up with this thread by typing on a tablet. Recipe for frustration, that.

[scriver]

I don't really consider passive-aggressive complaints about there being no conservatives in the lower boards to be polite.

I still do.t see what's passive aggressive about it.

[Sheb]

Well, he is complaining about people, so that's obviously passive-aggressive. 

Why is it okay on this forum to tell conservative to grow a thicker skin or sod off, while we'd never do that to any other minority group?

[XXSockXX]

It depends on what your goal is. If the desired end is to get the person to change their views, then civility and evidence will work better than anger and evidence.

Is that really true, though?  This is an honest question--I found that anger + evidence worked much better in my own learning process.  Having someone say "you're being a racist asshole" was unusually effective in cutting through my bullshit.

And I may be an outlier, but I'm curious as to other people's experiences with large shifts in worldview--what set them off, for you?  Emotional shock, or was it a slow, gradual change?

I think expressing too much anger only leads to evidence being ignored. If the goal is to expand someone's horizon (actually changing worldviews is rather difficult in a discussion), you're better off staying polite and rational. I'd rather have a well articulated rational argument than a yelling contest, that leads nowhere anyway.
I enjoy discussions about politics, religion and stuff like that, but I'm way too calm and cynical to get actually angry at something someone writes on the internet. I also find it interesting to hear from someone intelligent who I disagree with, that expands my own knowledge much more than only talking to people with the exact same opinion.

As for your second question, I have never experienced a large shift in worldview. Perhaps some smaller, gradual ones, that were caused by experiences and education rather than conversations.

[Vector]

Why is it okay on this forum to tell conservative to grow a thicker skin or sod off, while we'd never do that to any other minority group?

Are you sure... ?

[Remuthra]

Why is it okay on this forum to tell conservative to grow a thicker skin or sod off, while we'd never do that to any other minority group?

Personally, I'd tell anyone that, but that's probably besides the point.

[Sheb]

Well, maybe not, but I don't remember any other case, except maybe bronies, but I never paid attention to that stuff.

[kaijyuu]

Why is it okay on this forum to tell conservative to grow a thicker skin or sod off, while we'd never do that to any other minority group?

I'm pretty sure we tell that to every minority group (by "minority" I mean solely in relation to the demographics of this board).