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[Neonivek]

Those Classes replace the magic specialty

They only partially do, in the sense that they have spells tied to them and take up part of your specialization spots. You still have magic specialization. I'd argue that their effect on the game more then makes up for their part in the magic specialization.

Ok... I guess I'll be fair

If those classes mixed with the race and magic specialization... to combine into something different... Then I'd appreciate their inclusion.

But if anything it feels like it is there to take away from the magic specialty (something that I would have loved expanded anyhow...).

[Criptfeind]

I was actually wrong about something, the classes don't take up your specialization slots I think. So magic wise they simply add to the magic diversity and take nothing away.

How the specialization slots work, to how I have been able to pick up, is that you have three instead of six, so there is some granularity lost. But you still have all six spheres of magics to chose from to fill them. In addition you have the expander and exploration spheres, which I have no idea what they are, you can slot them into your specialization slots, but it doesn't look like you can double or triple up on them and I dunno what they do.

I am actually disappointed in this, since I thought you could put class abilities in the specialization slots, and I was going to play a goblin technologist who disavowed magic in my first game. Although I guess overall this system is better it does mean you have to have some magic. In a game about being a wizard. Unfair.

[Neonivek]

Given that the technologist is a highly magical specialty (more so then some of the other ones) I am astonished by that.

[Criptfeind]

Is it magic? Although certainly it doesn't work by the laws that govern our reality (and is thus sorta magic) and is also certainly going to have spells. The steampunky Dreadnought certainly seems fluffed to not be magic, but rather using mana as fuel for his technology.

[Neonivek]

Is it magic? Although certainly it doesn't work by the laws that govern our reality (and is thus sorta magic) and is also certainly going to have spells. The steampunky Dreadnought certainly seems fluffed to not be magic, but rather using mana as fuel for his technology.

Mana is liquid magic.

[Criptfeind]

And coal is solidified phlogiston.

(Also I think mana comes in crystal form)

Edit: I realized how what I said made no sense. Basically yes they are using the power of magic, but in a technological way, not weaving it as spells but rather as a natural force to be harnessed, I guess technically it's not really that different from what a sorcerer does, but it certainly feels much different.

[Neonivek]

I am having the sneaking suspicion that you cannot mix and match classes and races...

Or at least that the unique units don't change according to what race makes them.

[Criptfeind]

No, they don't. Other then the basic racial stats.

[Neonivek]

No, they don't. Other then the basic racial stats.

Seriously?

I thought I was just being pessimistic

It seems to be doing shadowmagic's really annoying tendency to have "implied" mix and matching ("Ohh you are using the Frost Giants? Well you gotta have this magic specialty... No we aren't going to give you the frost teraform spell anyway or tell you to use the correct magic path")

[Biowraith]

Machines and Summons don't change at all between the races.

Other class units like Musketeers and Apprentices will get a racial appearance and the default racial inherent skills and stat modifiers.

[Criptfeind]

I don't think that's really a pessimistic way of thinking. A radical change of class units based on race is pretty much impossible, although obviously it would be nice, thinking it would be possible would be stupidly optimistic.

That said, I don't see how it will decrease the ability to mix and match. Sure, some things might not be totally optimal (like maybe dwarfs have really good stats so taking a class based on summons and machines is not as op with them) but it's not going to be a huge thing I would think.

[Neonivek]

Machines and Summons don't change at all between the races.

Other class units like Musketeers and Apprentices will get a racial appearance and the default racial inherent skills and stat modifiers.

Ok good.

I don't think that's really a pessimistic way of thinking. A radical change of class units based on race is pretty much impossible, although obviously it would be nice, thinking it would be possible would be stupidly optimistic.

I meant appearance wise honestly.

Like having the Chimera Rider be a human if you are playing humans... and even the Warbreed.

[Biowraith]

Dwarven Succubus has a beard :p

[Criptfeind]

I meant appearance wise honestly.

Like having the Chimera Rider be a human if you are playing humans... and even the Warbreed.

Oh. Yeah. You can take other races cities still, I would assume the rider is from a human city. Uh. I sorta doubt the warbreed will change though. In my mind a human warbreed wouldn't make sense. Although it might be cool.

[Neonivek]

Dwarven Succubus has a beard :p

That is good.

While I realize there is still an "implied" mix and match (You want to chose an element your race uses, and use a more flexible race if you want to ignore it), at least the classes aren't AS obvious.

I am guessing Dark, Light, and possibly nature specialty don't exist anymore since all the other classes are part of them?