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[CaptainArchmage]

A sea race!
give merpeople more intelligence and sites or w/e
think about it, elves and humans have above ground between them, dwarves have mountains/underground, goblins have the evil places in the world, but the sea, swamps and lakes are quite boring!

I think this sounds like the best idea here. We need things going on in the oceans.

[MDFification]

I like the idea of merpeople, but adding that wouldn't affect gameplay for anyone not settling a coastline. I mean any non-merpeople couldn't get into a merpeople site without becoming a vampire.

So instead I'd add a a real underground race - a race that sends sieges, caravans and whatnot through the cavern layer. If dig was on and they were allowed to make steel, they'd be horrifying if you pissed them off.
I'd go with some form of naked mole rat people. They'd have a eusocial structure sort of like like ant-men, wouldn't feel pain, and in general be terrifying.

[BoredVirulence]

A mer people option should exist. Obviously they should be amphibious so they can stray from the water.
I'd like to see, if they were ever added, two types of sites for them. Underwater Atlantis type sites similar to dwarves deep sites (or at least sites in the ocean, be it artificial islands or underwater), and coastal sites.

I would like to see underground sieges occur. Personally, I think goblins should fill this role primarily. I see no reason why animal people civ's can't have primitive sites, and potentially siege, but I've always pictured goblins as inhabiting the depths too, largely through cave systems they discovered, I don't see them as miners by trade. It would also make sense for kobolds to come from the caverns as well, they inhabit caves, and like skulking. Besides, I imagine its easier to stealth underground.

At the same time, dwarves should in theory be able to attack from both caverns and above ground, when attacking armies come into play, and maybe with modded playable races at war with dwarves.

[pisskop]

I like the idea of new civs, but are we talking civs that will be 'mods' or 'standard'?

To be the latter you really need a niche of your own.

I have a merlock civ mod, and like tribal orcs, but they arent anything unique, and the current hardcoded state of the games core mechanics stops more creative interactions.

I would think variation of species would be sufficient to diversify war politics.  Each civ is selected from a list, then granted a culture or set of ethics?

[Taffer]

I also don't really think new races are needed. Mermen would be a unique, interesting addition, but otherwise animal men already fill this niche. I'm hoping they're fleshed out and whittled down a little. We could have ant men civilizations with actual hives attacking from the cavern layer, and tigerman villages. Anything to give then more of a civilization and integrate them into the world better.

[Melting Sky]

The ocean, the glacial north and the underground could all use some sort of primitive race of intelligent creatures ruling them. I guess all of these could easily be covered by the expansion of animal people.

[Xazo-Tak]

What could be more likely to obliterate the DF community in a mass flaming better than furries?

[Henny]

What could be more likely to obliterate the DF community in a mass flaming better than furries?

I'd say animalmen are already in the game, but I imagine that's like comparing a lion plush toy with an actual lion. Seriously, they're probably terrifying.

[Bandreus]

Rather than additional races, I'd like different civs to be more diversified in meaningful ways (traditions, ethics, customs, culture, etc.). I think that's where DF is going in the long run, and I like it.

Also, different civs developing different power hierarchies depending on stuff happening in world gen. City-states vs. Empires/Kingdoms with proper rulers vs. more Democratic structures like councils/senates/republics, that sort of stuff.

[20firebird]

How about a proper civ for kobolds?

[Knight Otu]

How about a proper civ for kobolds?

They already have one. It needs more work than some others still, but it's there.

Rather than additional races, I'd like different civs to be more diversified in meaningful ways (traditions, ethics, customs, culture, etc.). I think that's where DF is going in the long run, and I like it.

Also, different civs developing different power hierarchies depending on stuff happening in world gen. City-states vs. Empires/Kingdoms with proper rulers vs. more Democratic structures like councils/senates/republics, that sort of stuff.

Yeah, that'll happen eventually, and part of the framework is actually done - civs could theoretically have differing ethics (all variables I think, but I'm only sure about ethics) from each other. It just doesn't happen in play.

[Melting Sky]

Rather than additional races, I'd like different civs to be more diversified in meaningful ways (traditions, ethics, customs, culture, etc.). I think that's where DF is going in the long run, and I like it.

Also, different civs developing different power hierarchies depending on stuff happening in world gen. City-states vs. Empires/Kingdoms with proper rulers vs. more Democratic structures like councils/senates/republics, that sort of stuff.

I too like how he seems to be working a great deal on how civilizations and various social entities and the people within them interact. It's a piece of the simulation I don't think I have ever seen done in any sort of detail with any other game I've come across. It will be neat to see how the big 3 races become differentiated from each other in motives and predilections as the game's development continues.

If the animal people are included in the discussion then DF really already has a race to fill just about every environmental niche in the game. Merfolk are technically already in the game, just not as a civilization creating creature. You can find various other animal people in just about any biome in the game with high savagery. I believe I remember reading somewhere that working on animal people was on Toady One's to do list. It would be neat if they had primitive tribal type organization at some point and could build rudimentary settlements.

[Bandreus]

Well, my reasoning is simple: fewer but more varied races > higher number of less interesting races.

That being said, I can easily see a future when number/kinds of civilized races is a world gen parameter. Similarly to how magic is supposed to work way down the road.

I can see why Toad might be contrary to having too many civilized races in the game, but then that doesn't need to be the default world gen option.

What I think would be kind of problematic is the fact that in a game shark-bear people might be an intelligent/civilized entity group, while in the next that same race would be otherwise. The same applies to randomly-generated civilized races, in a sense.

Either way, it'll be very interesting to see how things pan out.

[Wimopy]

I definitely support the idea of water-dwelling peoples. Possibly like the Atlanteans/Aquaman in the DC comics, in a way. They can go to land, but dehydrate and die quickly. That way they can send caravans but can't have long sieges (which means blitzkrieg tactics for war).
Sure, you probably wouldn't deal with them much, though I guess they could send people up rivers, still it would add something to the otherwise barren seas.

My own idea? Bird people, like harpies, but better suited for using/creating tools. They could occupy areas with greater elevation or cliffsides, so they'd probably be most notable for bickering with dwarves, sort of like kobolds. Except you'd have to watch for sieges from above. They could also have a subrace that dwells in caverns or even lower, a pre-encounter to demons, or, if you're lucky/diplomatic, allies to fight them.
Of coures, they would be quite primitive, but basic metalworking is possible. (Though heat + feathers just doesn't mix well...)

[Taffer]

I definitely support the idea of water-dwelling peoples. Possibly like the Atlanteans/Aquaman in the DC comics, in a way. They can go to land, but dehydrate and die quickly. That way they can send caravans but can't have long sieges (which means blitzkrieg tactics for war).
Sure, you probably wouldn't deal with them much, though I guess they could send people up rivers, still it would add something to the otherwise barren seas.

My own idea? Bird people, like harpies, but better suited for using/creating tools. They could occupy areas with greater elevation or cliffsides, so they'd probably be most notable for bickering with dwarves, sort of like kobolds. Except you'd have to watch for sieges from above. They could also have a subrace that dwells in caverns or even lower, a pre-encounter to demons, or, if you're lucky/diplomatic, allies to fight them.
Of coures, they would be quite primitive, but basic metalworking is possible. (Though heat + feathers just doesn't mix well...)

By my count we already have 33 tool using, primitive races of bird people in the game. We already have the underground version you mentioned, in the form of Cave Swallow men. This is why I think that the animal men should be fleshed out more, as people seem to forget about them entirely.

For that matter, we already have dozens of sea dwelling races, too. If anything we need them procedurally generated, with civilizations. (Or at least with villages/homes, and the option of going to war with you if you attack them) That would both satisfy a number of good suggestions here, and would also give a purpose to (and hopefully, reduce the amount of) animal men wandering around everywhere.

Fortunately, I believe Toady already intends for this to happen.