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[Tiruin]

NQT: Votecount please?

NQT: If someone picked Resurrect and was killed/lynched, would they alignment/powerflip?

[hops]

I don't have any powers right now except Changeling. The rest are flaws.

[notquitethere]

Grasping battleworn hands try to pin down the molusc, while others point fingers and shout to be heard as their voices ring out across the vaulted chamber. No one claims their innocence because to be innocent is to be guilty.

Vote Count
Tiruin - [1] Leafsnail
mastahcheese
4maskwolf
Jim Groovester
Tack
NativeForeigner - [1] Tawarochir
Objective
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Deathsword
Tawarochir - [1] Jack A T
Jack A T
Leafsnail - [3] Tack, Tiruin, TheDarkStar
TheDarkStar
No Lynch

7 votes needed to hammer.

Day still ends on Monday, 11AM.

Not Voting: Jim Groovester, NativeForeigner, Objective, MyOwnWorstEnemy, Deathsword

[Tiruin]

Unvote

[Teneb]

Apologies for my absence from the game, I had to deal with a lot of stuff that got thrown at me.

Jack: I hope the above is enough of an explanation for D2's activity. D1 was quickhammered before I could get anything out. As for why I only FoS'd, I was still trying to understand what exactly she was going on about, and I was wary of another quickhammer happening.

My scumpicks right now are Objective (Got hit by a changeling and had innocent) and Tawarochir (OMGUSing, quickly switching votes). I'm still undecided about the other two (since it's highly unlikely there wasn't at least one conversion).

General Proposal:
OK, so we've got notes on Leafsnail and Tack. Let's not lynch them and aim for that blasted converter, aye?!

And what if either of them is lying and is the converter? We can't just clear anyone from being the converter based just on claims.

Furthermore, remember that Objective is still scum, as evidenced by the innocent trait he used to have. While it is important to find the converter, it is also important to thin the scum team's numbers. I don't know if they win by outnumbering us, but I'd rather not find out.

Tawarochir: Could you give me your reads on Tack and Leafsnail?

[Tack]

I think at this point the only way we'll find the converter is if those who have yet to claim do so, and therefore it should narrow it down to two possibles.

[Teneb]

I think at this point the only way we'll find the converter is if those who have yet to claim do so, and therefore it should narrow it down to two possibles.

And if we don't manage to catch the converter, we'll just have given them a list of who is the best possible conversion target, as well as telling the scum sapper (if there is one) who is the biggest threat to them.

[Tiruin]

General Proposal:
OK, so we've got notes on Leafsnail and Tack. Let's not lynch them and aim for that blasted converter, aye?!

And what if either of them is lying and is the converter? We can't just clear anyone from being the converter based just on claims.

...Right. And Leafsnail and Tack have ~8-ish points that were taken and reclaimed by those sappers. If they were the converter, then woohoo! Converter got recycled/sapped! (Well, leaving leafsnail anyways-he got himself sapped only.)

...Err, how are you coming up with the idea of them lying in that position? In regard to being the converter, the only possibility I see is Tack (in which his everything is a lie) or Leafsnail (doubtful given his setup and that he claimed against Tack. Unless this is a literal bus driven scheme to confound more...)

I think at this point the only way we'll find the converter is if those who have yet to claim do so, and therefore it should narrow it down to two possibles.

And if we don't manage to catch the converter, we'll just have given them a list of who is the best possible conversion target, as well as telling the scum sapper (if there is one) who is the biggest threat to them.

Yeah, sure. Tell me: Which power would the converter most likely LUUURVE to get?
Let's appeal to possibility more, yes?

[notquitethere]

General Announcement
I am a busy bee this weekend so my ability to respond to up-to-the-minute events will be somewhat limited. Please pay attention for any hammer and don't post after it (except to say to others, 'that was the hammer' if you notice first). I'll still try to respond to PMs in good time.

[Tiruin]

Objective

I don't have any powers right now except Changeling. The rest are flaws.

Claim everything.

@Tawa:...While you are being real scummy, it doesn't ping my scumdar. >.> Or better judgement at least.

So, you know, DarkStar, it's really odd you basically CONFIRMED a mafioso and did NOTHING.

"Oh, yeah, Objective had Innocent. I'm still going to vote Leafsnail."

...Because he pretty much did something that isn't nothing.
Judging from his words--he prioritizes the converter instead. Problem being: He's targeting a recycler with his vote.
So what's up with your wording?


4mask:

*sighs*
TDS: must you always be scum?

Err, FoS? You are the guy along with Mr Cheese who doesn't have a vote, right?
...Could you expound this thing here?


Checking my list (...which is AFAIK and not actually recorded because sleeeeeeeep)

People who claimed:
Tiruin - NC, FProtector , Inflate
mastahcheese - NC, FDScan//FDSap
Tack - NC, All recycled/sap'd, ...vanilla?
NativeForeigner - NC, more than not. Mostly all claims are valid (well, there's that miller business but that remains more on the players instead of him)
Leafsnail - NC, DaySap/Recycle
Jack A T -

Objective - NC, PreChangeling: Protect, Sap, (Bloodthirsty [Con])
TheDarkStar - NC, Changeling: Protect, Sap, (Innocent [Con])

I don't remember/didn't claim:
4maskwolf
Jim Groovester
Tawarochir
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Deathsword

Paired the conflicting claims (in which I trust the latter more than the former given that).

Tawa: No claim from you?
Same for 4mask, both of you have been vocal lately.

[4maskwolf]

Tiruin is silly.

Insane 4maskwolf claimed unable to vote, miller, blatant, nightkill, unstoppable, and clear-minded.

I will now return to cackling in a corner.

[Tiruin]

OH!
I thought when you said sane/insane, you were referring to something e-

...
*gives 4mask hugs*
^{I seriously doubt that's insanity more than some kind of defense mechanism instead. Still, hoping you're ok. :S}

[Tawa]

Apologies for my absence from the game, I had to deal with a lot of stuff that got thrown at me.

Jack: I hope the above is enough of an explanation for D2's activity. D1 was quickhammered before I could get anything out. As for why I only FoS'd, I was still trying to understand what exactly she was going on about, and I was wary of another quickhammer happening.

My scumpicks right now are Objective (Got hit by a changeling and had innocent) and Tawarochir (OMGUSing, quickly switching votes). I'm still undecided about the other two (since it's highly unlikely there wasn't at least one conversion).

General Proposal:
OK, so we've got notes on Leafsnail and Tack. Let's not lynch them and aim for that blasted converter, aye?!

And what if either of them is lying and is the converter? We can't just clear anyone from being the converter based just on claims.

Furthermore, remember that Objective is still scum, as evidenced by the innocent trait he used to have. While it is important to find the converter, it is also important to thin the scum team's numbers. I don't know if they win by outnumbering us, but I'd rather not find out.

Tawarochir: Could you give me your reads on Tack and Leafsnail?

Leafsnail: Just looks to me like he's scumhunting.

Tack: I... I'm not sure anymore. I was just only slightly insulted by the "village idiot" bit.

You hurt my feelings, Tack. *sniff*

Anyway, I'm unvoting for now. That single mistake by Native isn't grounds for lynch.

[TheDarkStar]

Tiruin: I agree that we should lynch the converter. Earlier, I was unsure, but I now suspect Tawarochir, especially since he hasn't claimed.

Tawa: Could you please claim? Also, why are you so defensive of Leafsnail? Could you explain why you think he's simply scumhunting?

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail I 'threw away' cop by claiming because at that point I had equal amount of votes as P-Luke and was getting gangbanged by questions. I figured if I got lynched I'd only be hurting my team, but if I got night killed, I'd be 'wasting' a kill- this being because as a townie my investigative skill isn't up to par, and I realize that.

Two obvious problems:
1. How the heck did you feel pressured when you weren't even on course to being lynched, and with so much time left to go?  Having a few people ask you questions isn't a good reason.
2. This clearly contradicts your earlier "Alignment cops are mega-super-ultra important to the extent that the mafia would HAVE to deal with them".  If alignment cops are that important then the mafia would not be "wasting" a kill, they'd be successfully eliminating a threat.  Also you seem to be assuming that the mafia is too stupid to make an actual informed decision about who they're going to kill/convert, and will instead rush for the claimed cop even if it's a bad move for them.

But right now I feel that I'm being a bad townie, and you're being a good scum. You've made every perfect step since being forced to claim, and you seem sure in your belief you'll finish the day without being lynched.

I'd normally just ignore this, but instead I will ask a genuine question: do you know how to construct an argument?

Like, seriously.  I just see you make loads of unsupported and controversial assertions throughout your posts without any supporting evidence or reasoning.  Like this, for instance.  You could replace it with "YOU SCUM I TOWN" and lose none of the argumentative power.

Jim my flavour inspect had me appear as town, and I wouldn't have had the points to buy innocent if I'd gone scumcop.

How did your flavour inspect have you "appear as town"?  If flavour cop can really perfectly judge someone's alignment then why is it only at 2 points?

How is he "clearly scum"? I see a big jump from "possibly converted" to "scum for sure". Also, what was your reason for recycling him?

Firstly, no, I'm not going to let you dodge the allegation through OMGUSing.  Why did you say Tack was confirmed town earlier?

And it's because he's been acting incredibly suspiciously throughout both days.  His actions make no sense for a townie (that's why he can't explain them without huge contradictions opening up), but make perfect sense for a mafia member.

Also, why aren't you trying to get scum lynched? Because Objective is the non-converting non-recycling scum, it's important to lynch either of the other two first. What's your reasoning?

You answer your own question in literally the next sentence.  Because we have to lynch the converter today.  I don't think the mafia team has a recycler, but if it theoretically did lynching them would also not be acceptable: the mafia would still get an extra person and end up in an overwhelmingly dominant position.

Even if I didn't think this I still wouldn't be going for Tack because he has no points and no abilities.

Unfortunately for Leafsnail, a scum recycler is in my eyes one of those priorities

Ok... why?  I can reduce someone's ability to function as a player, sure.  But a converter can remove someone's entire ability to function as a townie and also make it so they function as a mafia member.  And what's more they can do it without anyone noticing.

Your previous position of "We should get the converter first" was correct, the fact that you've contradicted it just exposes how desperate you are to lynch the one person who can block recruitments.

@Leafsnail: I see you dropped your earlier accusations about me lying, huh.

No, not at all.  It's just that the argument with you became an unreadable mess and there was no point in continuing it if no-one else will pay attention.  Actually that also applies to this post so I will just make a few general responses.

- I didn't "suspect" that you lied, I presented clear evidence that you misled the town.  As for why it was suspicious: you did not (and really, still have not) explained to my satisfaction why you did so.  In the absence of any plausible town motivation I will pick the scum one instead.
- I don't understand why you saying I'm "backing off" should make me react in any way.
- Tack has not to my knowledge presented a single good point in this entire game - I invite you to prove me wrong.  Well ok, he presented a couple only to immediately contradict them afterwards.
- There were three sappers in the game, two claimed.  So yes I thought it was likely that an unclaimed scum had sapped me because I couldn't see any reason for mastahcheese to do it.  I mean if scum had a sap why wouldn't they go for the easy 8 points (although according to TDS apparently the last sapper is Objective and he picked a really bizarre and terrible loadout).