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[hops]

Objective: You've contributed nothing to the game so far.  Would you be so kind as to tell us your scumpicks and why?  Also, why are you posting so little every time you come in?

Must be the fact that I live on the other side of the planet.

First off I think I should lay it on the table that I find Tack unlikely to be scum, because despite his suspicious behavior I think he would be revealing too much if he was scum. Like I said first round, he's just a tad bit too enthusiastic on finding people to lynch.

Also while I did get changeling'd by TheDarkStar, I don't have Innocent. My powers were Protect, Sap, and Bloodthirsty. Not to mention that it would be counter-intuitive to get Innocent as a scum rather than just not doing anything and claim miller.

[NativeForeigner]

You liar. I went off on a TANGENT on how I thought Miller would be a dumb idea.

I will be surprised if you flip town, Tack.

Hmm.
That's NativeForeigner's list.
If you look back at my last-completed list, you aren't on it.

Nice attempt to start a bandwagon though. Those three bloodthirsty voters would've jumped right on, considering the "every man for himself" attitude I'm getting from this townteam.

I think you may be right. My mistake, if that's the case.

Also, I didn't take bloodthirsty to actually be bloodthirsty.

Short post, lots going on right now. I'll post more when I can.

[TheDarkStar]

Not to mention that it would be counter-intuitive to get Innocent as a scum rather than just not doing anything and claim miller.

At this point, you know this. However, I can see your role, and I'm fairly certain that you had no idea about this when you chose your role.

[hops]

Not to mention that it would be counter-intuitive to get Innocent as a scum rather than just not doing anything and claim miller.

At this point, you know this. However, I can see your role, and I'm fairly certain that you had no idea about this when you chose your role.

I admit I didn't think of getting miller for the extra point. Also, I don't understand why you want to get me when I don't really have any threatening power like infallible alignment cop. I wouldn't even know who you were if you didn't reveal yourself.

[4maskwolf]

*sighs*
TDS: must you always be scum?

[Tack]

Regardless of whether TDS or Objective is scum, they aren't the converter.
Unfortunately I'll need to agree with Leafsnail that there are bigger priorities.

Unfortunately for Leafsnail, a scum recycler is in my eyes one of those priorities

[Tiruin]

Objective: You've contributed nothing to the game so far.  Would you be so kind as to tell us your scumpicks and why?  Also, why are you posting so little every time you come in?

Must be the fact that I live on the other side of the planet.

Not a valid excuse. I live on that side of the planet and I get myself to do stuff. :I
You should rather say 'I'm busy because schoolwork' but you don't. :I
:I

General Proposal:
OK, so we've got notes on Leafsnail and Tack. Let's not lynch them and aim for that blasted converter, aye?!

Regardless of whether TDS or Objective is scum, they aren't the converter.
Unfortunately I'll need to agree with Leafsnail that there are bigger priorities.

Unfortunately for Leafsnail, a scum recycler is in my eyes one of those priorities

I'ma greeing with you there but I' haven't looked back at D1 to see what people are saying about you being scummyscumscumscum which is what I asked earlier and Jim and Leaf responsded of the top of my head


@Leafsnail: I see you dropped your earlier accusations about me lying, huh.
Why I voted (yeah past tense as I recalibrate my sensors) you was due to the case on how you read things--it was more of a pressure vote given that in my addresses towards you [in most recent memory], you're probably the most nebulous figure I've had in getting tells from. Most of the time, you state things without giving the idea in depth--in the way that there most always seems to be lacking words in between the meaning.

Like for example: I suspect Tiruin lied and is covering up. Why? The Why part is what you lacked (and like, totally failed to explain over and over again-repeating TIRUINLIEDTIRUINLIED...): 

Next is that note of being picky. You do that a ton as scum, and also a ton as town. You get picky about statements and choose to see wrong when there is no bloody wrong at all and move from a point of using that wrong as the basis instead of anything else in the post which you quote.

If I said you're backing off now from Tiruin, what're you gonna do about it?

Next is that note on Sap/Recycle. I've to note that while Tack is a bit inexperienced, he forwards good points which you snip apart on the trivial details. Yeah, so what if you can roleblock the Converter? You're appealing to possibility.

And your love of perspective. Right here, you demonstrate that somehow, you believe everyone to know a tactic that is learned--not outright stated as a rule regarding the role [See: "Bullshit"]

You've demonstrated a fair amount of knowledge of how roles work, I seriously doubt you don't know why a cop shouldn't claim day one.

PS. This completely ignores the fact that the rule you imply here follows only in a regular game wherein people can't bloody CHOOSE POWERS OR ALIGNMENT DETAIL. That's the whole idea you were touting at my face a while ago on worthlessness of the cop!
Then you attack Tack for it, using that idea to denounce that statement of his.

And back to your claim.
...
You claimed Sap/Recycle based on what Tack, himself (and purely him?) is saying. Then you go grrr that someone sap'd you.
>_>
Could you explain why you did so in the first place, if there was anything to get irate over?
Because my inference, you getting mad means that either you're town and omg scum hit me (and implies that you DO believe that there's a scum sapper) or...well, something something over the loss of points.

My mind is tired.


4mask

You know what I hate about games like this?

Some people pay too much attention to the meta of the game and not enough attention to the scumhunting.

>.>
I try my best to do the latter.
Who are these some people?

Tawa: Would you stop that 'I'LL BE SURPRISED IF [PERSON] FLIPS TOWN'?!
Besides the point, that's ugly play. Hey, I'LL BE SURPRISED IF AT THE END OF THIS GAME, YOU ARE TOWN judging by how loud and obtrusive you're throwing your vote around as; include how you form your case against the person with that note.
You asked me to be straight with you-This is me being straight with you.
Mr. Cheese

Sappers.
So we've 2 day sappers.
Ugh, will crunch the math later. Problem being now that I can't fathom why some townies would bloody lie about getting miller (if and unless someone [NF] lied about the list and people got...the miller flaw from being cursed)
PFP because Arghghsleep.
Also mind is tired.

Jack

Tiruin: I still have trouble seeing much reason for your "I inflated Kill.  Actually, I inflated Resurrect." thing.  Why did you do it?

Responses. I looked at the people who were posting at the time of my posting (ie Leafsnail//4maskwolf), and decided to go along with some half-thought out idea of doing that for responses. My knowledge of them are that they are reactionary--not a good/bad thing, per se, but reactionary in the sense that they're more likely to jump at things being presented than anything else. Probably me being silly.

Or why I inflated Resurrect (instead of anything like Convert): is because Townies, in all due reason in the power list, would least likely pick Resurrect in my list of things a townie prioritizes. It's a one-shot thing--and in the case of being lynched, it wastes the lynch (but still confirmed townie, however compare that to the possibility in any case that someone can Convert. It's a bad thing which I did not wish anyone would pick [and worse yet, scum would pick...wait.)

NQT: If someone picked Resurrect and was killed/lynched, would they alignment/powerflip?

[mastahcheese]

Mr. Cheese

Sappers.
So we've 2 day sappers.
Ugh, will crunch the math later. Problem being now that I can't fathom why some townies would bloody lie about getting miller (if and unless someone [NF] lied about the list and people got...the miller flaw from being cursed)

Yeah, I was actually the first person to claim sapper (along with claiming the majority of the day- and free- powers from the fortune teller list) and the only scanner.
And yeah, I'm not getting the whole "lying about miller" thing, either.
...Why is it that you pointed my attention to this? I don't really see a question or anything in there.

[Tiruin]

My thought process is a bit scambled. I put down adjacent notes to where notes are.

So in my thinking about you being a sapper, I thought back on the NF list of claims and wondered: Given that Mr. Mod says that the Fortune Teller gets results after EVERYTHING happens in the Night (point buying and all that stoof), and is totally unblockable as far as I know, then there's...something pretty weird.

Scum can't get miller. Converted people to scum will DROP being millers. ONLY scum can get Innocent.

...So why in the world are people lying about being millers?! Unless someone got Cursed. There is no Cleanse.

Also list of known sappers based on the big list of everything:

> Objective
> mastahcheese (I can't find the post where you claimed :x)
> Leafsnail

...If the sabotage theory is right, then...well, I'm sorely confused now due to how the list doesn't match a deadly and efficient scumteam given the number of malevolent powers to benevolent powers.
And this is mostly a prototype game so I expected like, the worst! (I mean yeah, there's Convert and all, but given that list...)

[mastahcheese]

I found it for you, Tiru!

For the sake of making all the Day- and Free- powers easier to find, I'll claim that I own half of them.

My powers:
Free Day Scan (I'm surprised to be the only scanner, actually)
Free Day Sap (I'm not the one that took Tack's money points, I'm actually ticked that someone beat me to them. Which means that of the remaining 2 day powers, one of them is one of the other saps, if not both of them.)

And I'm a harcore miller that can't vote, which is how I can afford my OP free day sap.
The plan was to amass enough points to rid myself of No-Vote as soon as possible.

And if someone wants to flavor scan me, I'm Dracula, for all my blood sucking point stealing. I will admit that I failed to steal any points so far, though.

So no, I do not have the recycle/sap combo, I'm just an ass.

Thank you, NF.

[Tiruin]

Wait, that probably accounts all those who have Day-

> Jack A T (day...something, check D1 end.)
> Leafsnail (day sap)
> mastahcheese (double day!)
> ...that's all, right? There are 4 day claimants in NF's list, and...eh?

I can't doubt that he got Fortune Teller (or if scum, is saying stuff that others have said in scumchat) due to him actually getting those rare-powers that I picked (inflate and that other thing)

[mastahcheese]

Yup, that's all the day.

And there were 3 Free- powers, of which I own 2 of them.

[Tiruin]

Objective's problem is related to my role claim. I am the changeling; I chose it so that I could confirm scum while making them useless at the same time. I also had Mercenary, Miller, Dense, and Hardcore. I switched roles with Objective last night since his actions seemed odd to me, especially his vote. Here's his role:
Protect: Not too bad; probably intended to protect his team.
Sap: Probably to get more points.
Innocent: This is the one that basically confirms it. Note that town can have innocent (not that it does anything), so that's why I can see it.
No autos or flaws.

Also while I did get changeling'd by TheDarkStar, I don't have Innocent. My powers were Protect, Sap, and Bloodthirsty. Not to mention that it would be counter-intuitive to get Innocent as a scum rather than just not doing anything and claim miller.

Hmm.

Autos
1 - innocent (show up as town under inspect)

No disclaimer saying [certain alignment] can only take this.
*reads*
> Protect, Sap, Innocent.
> Protect, Sap, Bloodthirsty.

Hmm.
I'll make a giant list of claimants soon. x_x
Bloodthirsty [-/3]
> Jack
Native Foreigner

>... Objective
The searchengine does not lie.

Objective: I do note that you said 'were', what are your powers now?

Yup, that's all the day.

And there were 3 Free- powers, of which I own 2 of them.

Well I've a Free-Protect, so...nope, nobody else seems to have claimed Free.

Checking up on those claims though.

[Tiruin]

Jack A T Didn't address this, sorry. Clearer mind now.

...what are you even doing, Tiruin?  Are you seriously making snarky remarks at Leafsnail for assuming you were making a serious claim when asking you why you took your claimed action?  Why did you lie about your action in the first place?

Now I get why you assume its a lie--I didn't mean that note in the first place (see: reactionary, above) and hence didn't regard it as me lying.

I see a huge difference here between what you said and what you're saying you were thinking.  Namely, the latter is a statement of opinion.  You say you thought P-Luke was town, but did not know.

That is certainly not what you said Day 1.  What you said Day 1 was a statement of fact: P-Luke is innocent.  Such information would only be available to one group: the scum.  (While town infallible daycops could theoretically have had such information had NQT been handling day actions as he said they would be handled in the day action description, NQT was not.  Instead, NQT had all Day 1 actions take effect at the end of Day 1.)

What I got from your post was that you were faking an inspect.  There was no possible way town, aside from P-Luke could have the information you were claiming to have: knowledge that P-Luke was definitely town.   ...Then today, you say that you were just stating your opinion as if it were fact.  What.

*sigh* yeah. When the next post a person makes is a quickpost on the matter, wording really has to be noted. Done and taken down--it is best to assume that I'm faking an inspect or all; yes, I understand that, and in the matter of this case, it is also best to assume that what I said, I meant in all its entirety: Townies do not exactly know the exacts of a person yet what I'm saying there does, in fact clarify it (though my wording sucks.) What I'm saying is I do not agree with P-Luke being scum and thus being the target of the lynch. I "worded it wrong" (though it didn't feel or anything wrong when I posted it), and boom.

Yea, definites, the best and most obvious idea to assume at that point. He wasn't definitely town to me--however in regard to his contribution to the game, i'd say it was fairly...well, it didn't feel that he was scum at all given what little posts he had, and the essence in them. While everyone else could assume I was being 'definite' on that matter--you're right, but not correct that it was an inspect [I mean, seriously. Now I'm getting LS' point on 'lying' but still.)--it was my best judgement regarding his matter (I'm not forgetful on point-build events, for posterity. That's just wrong and messes up my whole life as a Roguelike gamer.)

Yes, it is quite interesting wording.  What I find most interesting about it is the fact that Leafsnail never used it.  In fact, your post here is the first use of the word "explicitly" in the entire thread.

Yes he did! He stated 'town' right there in the post my quote was attached to. >_>
And the use of explicitly is that he said, town, of all things. Not that he said 'explicitly town', but that I noticed he said explicitly, 'town'.

On millers: My whole argument on millers was mechanical: they're not easy to fake, and only town can have the flaw.  The whole argument hinged on the NQT note you missed.  In a normal game, they would theoretically be nulltells if all people played optimally.  Here, they're mild towntells, due to mechanical difficulty for scum to fake.  Not overwhelming (not even close), but not perfect neutral.

NQT note?

And on the last part: I think I clarified it well (I hope), if not: please point out where I'm lacking, thanks.

[notquitethere]

Jack

In Power Swap and Gift, the random list of powers to swap or give only includes powers that the recipient could actually use. And with Changeling, Miller and Convert would be lost if given to a player of the wrong alignment. So imagine a town Changeling Miller casting Changeling on scum, who the next night casts Changeling on a town player: neither the scum player nor the final town player would have the Miller flaw. (I doubt this situation will come up.)

NQT: I am aware that you have stated that town cannot get convert and scum cannot get miller, even through changeling, and that said abilities disappear if a changeling of the opposite alignment targets the owner.  Does this apply to Innocent?  Have you theoretically been remembering this rule as you stated you intended here?

Yes, this is how Changeling is implemented in this game. Only Miller and Convert are alignment specific and disappear if they come to be held by the opposite alignment. Innocent is not alignment specific and would not disappear if it came to be owned by the wrong player.

Tiruin, Resurrection would disappear the body but not flip alignment or role. You'd know they used Resurrection.