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[Tiruin]

NQT: Does the rule of Mafia outnumbering Town = Mafia win work as a set-rule in this game?
I ask because woo, conventional wincon.

[Tiruin]

EBWOP: Wait, didn't think about the vote-pile up. Was thinking more on the Factional kill and stuff the rule adheres to.
...
Yeah, question remains.

[Tack]

The fortune teller has only put down one convert.

Stop flipping out.

[Tiruin]

...My mind seems everywhere. Yeah. Oops. >_>

[Leafsnail]

NQT said the mafia win when town cannot (IE, when all mafia members cannot be eliminated).  Technically the town could win from 6v6 but that is never ever ever going to happen.

I am curious as to why there is only one convert on the board, considering how many liars there are.  Perhaps one of those converts vanished for some reason, into a neat stack of 7 points...

As in, you did him in without letting him talk up more?

I already thought he was scum pretty strongly.  And besides, waiting around might allow a mafia sapper to grab the points (this would be bad regardless of what alignment Tack is).

Start 5, Convert cost is 7. Day cost = 9 total. *checks flaw list*
...
Huh.

Yep.  The day converter could take all the flaws and it wouldn't matter since they'd be instantly cleansed.  Also they would have a point left over.

[Leafsnail]

By the way I'm not voting Tack because he's pretty neutralized right now, what we need to find is the still active converter.

[Jack A T]

Also Tack's claim to have 6 points earlier was false, he had seven.  Good thing we have a scanner who can verify the number of points I currently have, eh?  And good luck explaining how I got all these points without Miller, Tack.

Leafsnail: This fits his claim.  Recycle of infallible: 6 points.  Night 1: +1 point.

Objective: You know, there's this RVS question I asked way back at the start of the game that you never answered.  I'm certain there are other questions throughout the thread for you as well.  Would you mind dealing with them?

Massclaim thing:
I am a Brutal P.I..
I have two points left.
Flaws:
*Miller +1
*Blatant +1
Powers:
*Bloodthirsty -1
*DayFlavour Inspect -4
*Count -2
*[OMITTED UNTIL LATER] (gained via someone Santaing me last night)
Actions:
*Day 1: DayFlavour Inspected Tack.  This was partially to test my power (see how effective it is) and partially to see if Tack's odd claim was true.  I have stated my results already: judge outfit, precise and exact in all actions, loud/booming voice, and not looking like a low-life.
*Night 1: Counted 4maskwolf.  No solid reason.  One power, 2 autos.  Also, I gained [OMITTED].

[Tack]

Santa comes before Fortune teller. It'll be in the list.


My ideas, on the edge of this:
Leafsnail isn't the recycler.
Leafsnail is the converter.

Claimed recycler, so that we wouldn't lynch, thinking 'shit, but I guess they're on our side'
Is planning to win the game tomorrow night anyway.
So is just trying to muddy the waters from here on out.

I say Leafsnail either needs to die today, or will be responsible for us losing tomorrow- because of a convert which we can't protect against anyway.

[Leafsnail]

Nice try, but mastahcheese can easily scan me to confirm I have 8 points now.

[Jim Groovester]

NQT, does Fortune Teller report results from the start of the phase or the end of the phase?

Also, thanks all you chatty people for making this thread so difficult to stay on top of.

Dear 4maskwolf and Tack:

Firstly, answer my questions:

I still don't see an explanation for why you decided to channel your inner Marty McFly about topical Day 1 discussion.

And there's a reason for that.
If you were smart, and thinking like a townie, you'd see it.

How about you answer my fucking question instead of dodge it in the tooliest fashion possible.

I find it pretty likely for Tiruin to be scum.

Then why not vote her?

Alright, time for me to go through the list of things that Jack could have done to me and their results:

Why are you trying to figure this out instead of find scum?

In any case, why didn't you try to kill anybody last night?

Secondly, go fuck yourselves for ignoring me.

Tiruin:

I protected MOWE.

But why?

I'd already made the assumption that it was definitely scum who recycled me.

Why not somebody who thought you were scum? Recycle + sap is a great way to roleblock somebody and then make sure they never do anything again.

This is why I wouldn't answer Jim's exceedingly useless question.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tawarochir seems far too inexperienced to be scum- I feel like they'd be telling him to STFU over PM (and yes they could tell him to play VI, but no WIFOM please)

This is a fallacy. A player's inexperience has nothing to do with his or her alignment and the presence of experienced players on a scumteam does not prevent a new scum player from making mistakes.

I say Leafsnail either needs to die today, or will be responsible for us losing tomorrow- because of a convert which we can't protect against anyway.

This is super fucking scummy. You wanted mastahcheese to scan Leafsnail before so you could confirm he was a scum recycler/sapper, but now you want to lynch him at all costs because you think he has convert and you're not even interested in a scan anymore.

It's almost like your arguments lack any consistency altogether.

Scumteam composition theories

Why are you making so many assumptions about the composition of the scumteam? Besides Convert being a scum exclusive power, there's no way to theorize with any sort of accuracy about what power the scum picked.

We're fighting a CULT that can SAP and RECYCLE at DAY.

Ohmigosh.

Why.

Why do people think that recycle/sap is something only scum would pick.

IT'S A PERMANENT ROLEBLOCK

back

forth

I'm not reading this.

Yes, I am the recycler.

Why did you cave so quickly to Tack's vote and pressure to a massclaim?

Also, this isn't your full role claim.

[Tack]

Why do people think that recycle/sap is something only scum would pick.

I'm inexperienced, so this may be a massively complex strategy which we don't know of, but- a townie wouldn't immediately cut a cop claim down. They'd wait to find out. They wouldn't then sap the confirmed claim. Ergo, it was a bad recycle.
To me, Leafsnail is doing the best possible thing a scum could when backed into a corner, but again I have no idea how much of my suspicions are OMGUS.

Not even interested in a scan anymore

A scan will only show how many points Leafsnail has. Which is good, it'll tell me Convert or Recycler. But it won't tell me town or scum.
Likewise, a flavor inspect on Leafsnail won't help, because taking innocent will just show them as a townie, and LS has already claimed recycler.

Firstly, answer my question, secondly, go fuck yourself for ignoring me.

This is why I wouldn't answer Jim's exceedingly useless question.

Asked and answered.
Read. Think.
There was no fucking way I was spilling those beans until the list was done.
To give it up beforehand would've ruined the entire point.

And fortune teller goes last, judging by the order of operations list.

[Leafsnail]

I "caved" because Mastahcheese was about to find out anyway, so there was no real point in hiding it.  Also I think Tack already worked out I was the Recycler due to my defense of it as a role.

It isn't a complete claim though, no.  I also received a gift last night.

[Tiruin]

Ups

I protected MOWE.

But why?

Lack of reads. No strong reason other than I've grown to believe she was town due to how she approached the condition of the miller-debate on D1.

PFP working

Why are you making so many assumptions about the composition of the scumteam? Besides Convert being a scum exclusive power, there's no way to theorize with any sort of accuracy about what power the scum picked.

So I can voice out what I'm thinking for others to also ponder upon in addition to what they're thinking, so when scum is caught we could infer the list from NF's fortune telling ability and match it up?

Ohmigosh.

Why.

Why do people think that recycle/sap is something only scum would pick.

IT'S A PERMANENT ROLEBLOCK

My viewpoint comes from the use of power to wincon to perception ratio. Scum would want to win as fast as they can, as best as they can, with little hindrance in their way. The sap/recycle plot (or the saboteur route) destroys as much as they can as they are coordinated. Playing roles that are...'pure' or specialized in what they do to support each other given that scum have their own sekrit chat.
They may choose to get a kill. They may choose to deprive the town, and especially when they're acting as individuals, they can easily take them out.
So...yeah. That.

Though the convert thing that was discussed flipped my I hate Cult switch. So yeah.

I'm not reading this.

I'm doing it again, aren't I.

Also Tack's claim to have 6 points earlier was false, he had seven.  Good thing we have a scanner who can verify the number of points I currently have, eh?  And good luck explaining how I got all these points without Miller, Tack.

Leafsnail: This fits his claim.  Recycle of infallible: 6 points.  Night 1: +1 point.

But a scanner can only see the points not taken into account--the free points.
Not enough time to do the maths but I'm doubtful of that area.

1 - Scan (spot how many points a player has)

Sure, the defense is that scum would like to win fast.

I've to ask you, Leafsnail, that in knowing your full capability of deprivation--wouldn't you love to ensure who is town or scum first?
What made Tack your #1 prime suspect?

As in, you did him in without letting him talk up more?

I already thought he was scum pretty strongly.  And besides, waiting around might allow a mafia sapper to grab the points (this would be bad regardless of what alignment Tack is).

...But nobody knows that Tack was recycled at the time being. He's one out of the basket.

But *points back up*

[Tack]

EBWOP

Then why not vote her?

As stated in that VERY SAME POST
I ended up concluding that she could have been a townie who was just way off her game due to current circumstances.
And the fact she had blatant meant she wasn't the recycler, who I was hunting.

[Jim Groovester]

Why do people think that recycle/sap is something only scum would pick.

I'm inexperienced, so this may be a massively complex strategy which we don't know of, but- a townie wouldn't immediately cut a cop claim down. They'd wait to find out. They wouldn't then sap the confirmed claim. Ergo, it was a bad recycle.

I think you're super scummy and it's basically only because of Jack A T's inspect on you that I haven't voted you. It is completely reasonable to me that Leafsnail would rob you of all your powers and points to permanently prevent you from acting.

You don't get a free town card just because you claimed cop.

And fortune teller goes last, judging by the order of operations list.

That's not what I want to know. I want to know whether Fortune Teller gives results from the start of the phase or the end of the phase. E.G., if somebody is a santa and gives a power to somebody, does the new power show up on the Fortune Teller's results?