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[TheDarkStar]

Leafsnail: The scum had one protect, like you said (Objective). Two protects don't actually make sense, though, since players can only take one action per phase. Also, protect is cheap. If there were two protects, scum would be giving up spots that could be better used for other scum-related powers rather than redundancy.

[Leafsnail]

Oh right I guess that's just about a valid concern (although not hugely - a highly paranoid scumteam could want to protect two members at once).  That can be easily explained by supposing that MOWE (an inexperienced player) took Protect when she was town.

[Leafsnail]

Besides that's nowhere near the level of redundancy in Tiruin's claimed build.

[4maskwolf]

Oh right I guess that's just about a valid concern (although not hugely - a highly paranoid scumteam could want to protect two members at once).  That can be easily explained by supposing that MOWE (an inexperienced player) took Protect when she was town.

MOWE would not have taken protect as town and accused you of being scum with an alignment cop, Leafy.

[Leafsnail]

Look at who targeted MOWE night one

Then look back at the argument I have been making for multiple pages

Then tell me if that is a valid objection

[Leafsnail]

I mean Christ I even said "when she was town" to remind anyone reading.

[4maskwolf]

Look at who targeted MOWE night one

Then look back at the argument I have been making for multiple pages

Then tell me if that is a valid objection

One point I want to make: I was the one who originally concocted the idea that Tiruin was a blatant converter, and Leafy was one of the people who said "that's so dumb, no scum would do that, what are you talking about?"  Then I switch my target to Deathsword/Persus, and he extends the day and goes after Tiruin with the exact same accusation that he discarded earlier.  Like, heel-face turn, much.

That being said, unvote, I need to look over the arguments in play.

[Leafsnail]

One point I want to make: I was the one who originally concocted the idea that Tiruin was a blatant converter, and Leafy was one of the people who said "that's so dumb, no scum would do that, what are you talking about?"  Then I switch my target to Deathsword/Persus, and he extends the day and goes after Tiruin with the exact same accusation that he discarded earlier.

As far as I can tell no part of this is true.  Can you provide quotes and explain what you mean?

[4maskwolf]

Actually, I looked back and you didn't even comment on my theory back then, my mistake.

That's what I get for trying to do things from memory.

Now, let's look at a few of the 1 v 1 situations we have here:
Toaster v. Leafsnail on the matter of inspection results:
Possibilities:
1. Toaster is telling the truth, Leafsnail is lying: Leafy is scum
2. Toaster is lying, Leafsnail is telling the truth: Toaster is scum
3. Toaster is lying, Leafsnail is lying: seems an excessive gamble, but both are scum

Tawarochir v. Leafsnail on the matter of gifts:
Possibilities:
1. Tawarochir is telling the truth, Leafsnail is telling the truth: Jim Groovester and Leafsnail are scum (I'll explain in a moment) is scum
2. Tawarochir is telling the truth, Leafsnail is lying: Leafsnail is scum
3. Tawarochir is lying, Leafsnail is telling the truth: Tawarochir is scum.

This also combines with the above: if Leafy is town, then both Tawarochir and Toaster are scum.

For the first one, Leafsnail is still scum because if Tawarochir and Leafsnail are telling the truth, then Jim Groovester was lying about his gift giving.  However, he could not have known that Tawarochir gave a gift to Leafsnail unless one of the following two conditions were met: Tawarochir is scum or Leafsnail is scum, and he would never take such a stupid risk and claim that without information.  Notice how Groovester claimed before Tawarochir.  Let's look at these closer:
Tawarochir is scum: this would be a stupid and pointless scum gamble, they could just say who they targeted rather than make this shit up.  Will get at least one of them lynched.
Leafsnail is scum: Makes much more sense: a gambit to get Tawarochir lynched, but not immediately because there is the need to find the converter.  In this way, they town will not find out until it is far too late.

Objective v. TDS on the matter of changeling:
Possibilities:
1. Objective is telling the truth, TDS is lying: TDS and Jack are scum
2. Objective is lying, TDS is telling the truth: Objective is scum.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail is scum: Makes much more sense: a gambit to get Tawarochir lynched, but not immediately because there is the need to find the converter.  In this way, they town will not find out until it is far too late.

I claimed to have received one gift long before Tawa claimed to have targeted me so this doesn't make sense.

It isn't a complete claim though, no.  I also received a gift last night.

[4maskwolf]

yes, but was that before or after you saw the second santa on the list?

[4maskwolf]

Wait, what?  I was saying you were telling the truth, but under the hypothetical circumstances I gave you are on the scumteam, and had told Groovester that you had received a gift.  Then you claimed to have it, and Groovester says he gave it to you.

[Leafsnail]

Right, I missed that.

[Leafsnail]

Although actually I sustain my objection: I'd have no way of knowing who I was about to get into a 1v1 with.  It wouldn't be "a gambit to get Tawarochir lynched", it would be "a gambit to get into a fight with a random person".

[4maskwolf]

Although actually I sustain my objection: I'd have no way of knowing who I was about to get into a 1v1 with.  It wouldn't be "a gambit to get Tawarochir lynched", it would be "a gambit to get into a fight with a random person".

True.  But the specifics of the theoretical situation at the time don't matter, what matters is that the end result was going 1 v 1 with Tawarochir.

See, you are like Loki.  You have a silver tongue and can be convincing in anything, but there is one main reason I think that you are scum over Tawarochir and Toaster: why would the scum sic two people on you to try and kill you?  Yes, you're a good speaker, but after the MOWE gambit got nowhere it would have been better to cut their losses and not decide to sic Tawarochir on you as well.  That would have been pointless in the extreme, because by then we were already discussing that even if you were scum, it wouldn't matter till later because you probs weren't the converter.  MOWE would know that, and even if she didn't the converter would have hit someone experienced, who would have told them that.

Even if I'm getting the accusations in the wrong order, it still holds true.  Why would they try twice?  That's why I believe you are scum, which leads to some other interesting conclusions.