In which my clain is denounced with certainties such asI think it's less likely than the "Tiruin is converter" theory because Tiruin's roleclaim is obviously fake.
without backing.
So...why?
I have been over this multiple times. It is an almost completely useless (the only thing in it which has any real value to a townie is the Inflate) build for
10 points. Even if we accept that you forgot that the mafia would never kill it's still a really bizarre build, because a) two of your powers (immune to NKs + free protect) fill the exact same function and b) you could achieve almost exactly the same effect for 1 less by putting free on inflate instead of protect.
The thing that makes this unbelievable is the fact that you are generally a good player, and it seems like you must be able to do better. Actually I'll go further: I know you can do better.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134925.msg5111231#msg5111231In this post you correctly identified a major flaw in the provisional ruleset - that day powers were undercosted and would probably be used by everyone. This implies that you
are able to correctly evaluate the power level of abilities in a format like this. So why did you do so badly this time, wasting 9 points out of 10, and even including additional redundancy in those 9 poorly spent points?
This is essentially impossible, though. There's basically no way to get a usable day-convert without Cleanse, and to be able to have both cleansed and fortune-told, you'd need (at minimum) ten points (free cleanse and fortune teller). There's no way to get that without Magnetic or Unreliable (or Blatant/nonvoter, but that combo doesn't exist because neither blatant player is a nonvoter.) In other words, we can believe there's only one convert so far (you).
I think you could do it with creative night one selling, but yeah I guess it would be hard to have two converters and an original scum teller. Nothing to stop there being a recruited one though.
And of course, Toaster could always be the converter. If it's Lylo on a wrong decision, there's no reason OWM wouldn't have gone for a 1v1. This is only saved due to Leafsnail backing off from OWM to chase Deathsword. If Leaf was on the assumption of town, then a false cop claim would be like a big neon arrow pointing to the converter.
But there's always the slim chance that you and Leaf are both scum.
I'm confused. Why do you think a player throwing themselves into a 1v1 is a good indication that they're the most important member of a scumteam? Or indeed a 2v0.
I have claimed a kill, and nobody else has contested it. We know what Leafsnail and objective have, and there is no way they could have packed an extra kill in their arsenal. Additionally, by the fortune teller results, in order to get a convert instead of a kill I would have to drop miller and kill and pick up convert, hardcore, and DENSE. And would have 0 points left currently, because of dense. However, Cheese reviewed my remaining points and found that I had one point, which wouldn't otherwise be possible.
Santa
It would have been trivial for Native to leave the convert off the list, leaving just the kill as an obvious scumtell. It would have been trivial to frame me as a member of the scum team and kill me, which would have yielded no information for the town to go off of. In the meantime, the scum convert another person, bringing them up to five members. To the town's 12. Leaving it in actual LYLO, barring the ability to kill off or block the converter.
I do not believe that there's any combination of 3 players in this game dumb enough to not take a conversion - if any player tried to suggest that the scum didn't take it I would call them a liar.
That said I guess this would
sortof work if Tack were scum and Native were trying to make it look like the converter was already recycled away, but a) that fails if Tack is town (how does he know the Recycle even got used in the night?) and b) I wouldn't say that's a no-brainer decision anyway, particularly because that doesn't really achieve anything except damning one useless player unless the town players foolishly disregard the possibility that Native is scum.
The thing that makes Native town is the fact that Tiruin is the converter.
Cheese has confirmed his ability to day-sap by doing so to Leafy, and thus cannot be converter.
This is incredibly naive. There's nothing stopping a mafia member from claiming their partner's ability. I mean heck that's the entire basis of your theory!
Also, Leafsnail was not the convert. His combo is a HORRIFIC town combo because it is far more likely to hit town than scum, particularly night one, and the total neutralization of a town power role is a really, really bad thing. Having plain recycle is okay for town, but running a day-sap on them is just not a towny move because it could permanently remove a player from the game. Particularly if you target it at someone who is unable to vote, they basically become a spectator. Also, learn to aim better, scummy mcscummerton Leafy.
This paragraph is fucking priceless. Everything you said here applies equally to Kill (you know, the thing you picked). Heck, it applies way more because:
a) You're removing town points from the game instead of just moving them over to another townie
b) You're not just totally neutralizing a town role, you're also neutralizing that player's vote, and their ability to gains points in the future, and the knowledge they gained during the night
Even if my Tack decision was wrong, the result would not have been hugely disastrous if Tack didn't throw a huge tantrum about it. I would be able to buy into both Prolific and Free to recycle 3 people on the following night - and preventing the top three converter suspects from acting at all is incredibly powerful. Compare to "the target is dead and can never act or vote again".
Jim is probably a scum because he is buying into the crap Leafsnail is trying to feed the town. He is also the one who would logically be the first to be converted at night, because of his experience. His efforts to attack Tiruin are feeble at best and downright stupid at worst, and he has no evidence beyond "that seems like a bad role combo and you're acting defensive".
Wait, you're suggesting that I was on the original scumteam? Wow. I am insulted that you think I'd let my team-mate pick Innocent/Sapper/Protect (although I'm sure Jim would feel the same way if you switched him into your team).
Leafsnail: Why did you shift from Objective, to Deathsword, to Me as of late? Tone seemed to shift between seeing Objective, then looking at DS, then...claiming bandwagon somehow...then now.
I switched to Deathsword because 4mask's reasoning seemed plausible at first glance, then away because you made an extremely scummy action ("I'm not sure about this player but I'm going to put the nails in his coffin anyway") that drew my attention back to your extremely scummy claim. And then I noticed 4mask's reasoning was based on a completely incorrect assumption anyway.