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Author Topic: How hit chance should acknowledge body part locations and parents  (Read 738 times)

Xazo-Tak

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It kind of bugs me how if a Bogeyman has legs, he's a karate master, repeatedly roundhousing you in the face.
In fact, a Bogeyman can roundhouse anything in the face, no matter how tall, except for things without faces and things that kill him first.
The raws contain enough information to approximate how high up a body part is, and a creature having fallen over could be taken as
So, difficulty in hitting should diminish with height difference of body parts using a half-height, (Half-Height should be about a half the longest length of attacking creature.)
This way, the difficulty of a same-height humanoid kicking you in the face or biting your foot is quadrupled, but kicking the foot or biting the face remains the same.
Wrestling would be influenced in the same way, but a "Climb" wrestling move using three parts would be added, which allows your character to hop onto a part of a greater mass than your character, and your active climb wrestle is deleted when you use another. Plus you have a chance of being flung when an attack is used (Chance diminishes with number of parents between climbed part and part used in attack)
You're granted some safety from the creature you're climbing when you're on it.
The less parents and/or children between you and the part attacking you, the harder you are to hit.
So if you're on a dragon's left forearm, you'll be impossible to hit with the left claw. Right claw is a bit more of an easy strike.
The height from the ground of that part would become the height of mean of the body parts you're using to climb, the rest of your body positioned depending on that.
This would put higher body parts of your foe within sanely achievable reach. If your climb misses, you fall. Which would be Fun if you were between a Roc and a hard place a hundred feet down.
I think where I'm going with this is clear.
Climb onto a dragon, and chop it's head off as you ride it.

But of course, there was another thing about hit chance that was kind of bugging me!
That if you aim for the eye and miss, you won't hit the head, or anything else. Ever.
And that no matter how blind and beserking a warrior is, they can target any body part.

Currently the targeting and hitting process is this:
1. Calculate hit chance on all body parts >2
2. Allow attacker to target any part >3
3. Roll based on 1, Hit>4 Miss>5
4. Hit reported
5. Miss reported

I suggest this:
1. Calculate hit chance on all body parts >2
2. If a part has a chance of being hit under %(100-(Attacker's Focus+Spatial Sense)/100), make the children of that part not directly targetable >3
3. Allow attacker to target any of the list of parts >4
4. Roll based on 1, Hit>5 Miss>9
5. Did 2 make the children of this part untargetable? No>6 Yes>7
6. Report hit on currently targeted part <End>
7. Put targeted part and all it's children in a lottery, weighted by hit chance. Roll for part and retarget. Is rolled for part the part targeted before the lottery? Yes>6 No>8
8. Does this part have any children? Yes>7 No>6
9. Roll based on 1, Hit>11 Miss>10
10. Report miss on part targeted in 3 <End>
11. Target parent of currently selected part, don't change target if there is no parent for part. Roll based on 1, Hit>7 Miss>9
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 02:40:31 pm by Xazo-Tak »
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Bumber

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Re: Hit chance should acknowledge body part locations and parents
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 10:19:07 pm »

http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_9_transcript.html
Quote
Eventually when we get to the point where you can only hit giants in the legs or whatever then you can have being up on a mount provide that kind of differentiation so your head's safer ... I'm not sure what other things come up out of mounts. You probably have to take care of your horse, at the same time you have to take care of your livestock, so you have to make sure your horse is fed and watered and so on. I don't know if you had other questions about that ...
Quote
Yeah, like all the old Ray Harryhausen movies had them jumping up on the back of the cyclops and hacking on it and stuff, and people bring up Shadow of the Colossus too, which is cool. All that stuff's pretty cool, the question would be how can you do that in our kind of visually impoverished environment, and would it be as fun? It's obviously not going to be as exhilarating in some sense, but it would still be entertaining. We have that thing up on the dev pages where it's like 'being able to jump up and ride on your opponents' and I guess it would just be like that. Depending on how those zones work out you can jump either onto the middle zone of a larger creature, like if you're jumping up on a troll you could try to jump and grab a hold of its back ... I don't know if you'd be doing that twin daggers climb up its back, but ...
Quote
Yeah, you might get smacked by a big troll fist ... It's interesting to think of how it all works together, because there's wrestling ... because during a brief time during the throw the guy is really off balance but he might be riding you in a sense even though he's so off balance or in the process of a slow motion fall that he can't really do much with it. Although I guess there have been a few weird times where they recover and choke people with their legs when they're being picked up by them and so on, there's some weird stuff. So that's one thing where you're kind of being carried by somebody, partially, and you're kind of falling, and you're kind of riding them, and then there's riding a horse which is like a Shadow of the Colossus thing, and then there's the actual version where you're climbing up a dragon or jumping up on an oliphaunt like Legolas in the movie, climbing all over its trunk and shooting it in the brain and all that kind of thing. So there's all those different things and the question is do those play nice together, is that all one unified system, because then you can do that. But you don't want to have to go up to your horse and be like 'attack horse: jump on its back' and you're like 'you are now riding your horse', that'd be kind of silly. We haven't obviously come up with the specifics there, but it would be fun and fitting with all of the fantasy predecessors to be able to jump up on a large beast, so it's important to do that. I guess once you're on it in a simplified version it's like 'you are riding on the dragon's left lower leg' and you'd be 'move up' and you'd cry up the body part tree, it could do a path search on it or something, and you climb up the leg and then you're on the dragon's lower body, and then it's like 'do you want to try and jab your spear into the dragon's wicked spleen or do you want to go up higher?' and you could climb up and eventually be riding around on the dragon's neck. Then you'd be able to get attacks on it but it would be able to get attacks on you that you'd have more difficult dodging, or it could go to the ground and try to smash one of its zones into the ground.
Quote
By the time we're done you're not going to have access to a dragon's head all that often. When we get the thing in where a combat move takes time to execute then if a dragon tries to bite you and you're a good enough fighter that you get the reaction on that then it would say 'the dragon is coming to bite you, what do you want to do?' and that body part would now be accessible to you, it'd be like 'well I'd like to try and hack his head off', and that would be an option that you can go for.

Edit: Bold underlined some stuff for convenience.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 10:33:05 pm by Bumber »
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THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Xazo-Tak

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Re: Hit chance should acknowledge body part locations and parents
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 11:26:58 pm »

http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_9_transcript.html
Quote
Eventually when we get to the point where you can only hit giants in the legs or whatever then you can have being up on a mount provide that kind of differentiation so your head's safer ... I'm not sure what other things come up out of mounts. You probably have to take care of your horse, at the same time you have to take care of your livestock, so you have to make sure your horse is fed and watered and so on. I don't know if you had other questions about that ...
Quote
Yeah, like all the old Ray Harryhausen movies had them jumping up on the back of the cyclops and hacking on it and stuff, and people bring up Shadow of the Colossus too, which is cool. All that stuff's pretty cool, the question would be how can you do that in our kind of visually impoverished environment, and would it be as fun? It's obviously not going to be as exhilarating in some sense, but it would still be entertaining. We have that thing up on the dev pages where it's like 'being able to jump up and ride on your opponents' and I guess it would just be like that. Depending on how those zones work out you can jump either onto the middle zone of a larger creature, like if you're jumping up on a troll you could try to jump and grab a hold of its back ... I don't know if you'd be doing that twin daggers climb up its back, but ...
Quote
Yeah, you might get smacked by a big troll fist ... It's interesting to think of how it all works together, because there's wrestling ... because during a brief time during the throw the guy is really off balance but he might be riding you in a sense even though he's so off balance or in the process of a slow motion fall that he can't really do much with it. Although I guess there have been a few weird times where they recover and choke people with their legs when they're being picked up by them and so on, there's some weird stuff. So that's one thing where you're kind of being carried by somebody, partially, and you're kind of falling, and you're kind of riding them, and then there's riding a horse which is like a Shadow of the Colossus thing, and then there's the actual version where you're climbing up a dragon or jumping up on an oliphaunt like Legolas in the movie, climbing all over its trunk and shooting it in the brain and all that kind of thing. So there's all those different things and the question is do those play nice together, is that all one unified system, because then you can do that. But you don't want to have to go up to your horse and be like 'attack horse: jump on its back' and you're like 'you are now riding your horse', that'd be kind of silly. We haven't obviously come up with the specifics there, but it would be fun and fitting with all of the fantasy predecessors to be able to jump up on a large beast, so it's important to do that. I guess once you're on it in a simplified version it's like 'you are riding on the dragon's left lower leg' and you'd be 'move up' and you'd cry up the body part tree, it could do a path search on it or something, and you climb up the leg and then you're on the dragon's lower body, and then it's like 'do you want to try and jab your spear into the dragon's wicked spleen or do you want to go up higher?' and you could climb up and eventually be riding around on the dragon's neck. Then you'd be able to get attacks on it but it would be able to get attacks on you that you'd have more difficult dodging, or it could go to the ground and try to smash one of its zones into the ground.
Quote
By the time we're done you're not going to have access to a dragon's head all that often. When we get the thing in where a combat move takes time to execute then if a dragon tries to bite you and you're a good enough fighter that you get the reaction on that then it would say 'the dragon is coming to bite you, what do you want to do?' and that body part would now be accessible to you, it'd be like 'well I'd like to try and hack his head off', and that would be an option that you can go for.

Edit: Bold underlined some stuff for convenience.
Sweet.
This is a suggestion for how such mechanics can be added, so even if it's already planned, it's still useful.
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