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Author Topic: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...  (Read 2369 times)

Justyn

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[DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« on: March 16, 2014, 01:07:14 am »

Okay, so while I was starting up a new fort from a new version of the game (I've been on an educationally-related hiatus from DF), and I noticed that the names for the categories used here an there were... I'm going to be blunt, extremely bad Latin. So, I figured that since part of my aforementioned educational hiatus was because I was taking amongst other things, Latin, I figured I'd volunteer to help out a little by giving more... accurate Latin translations for the categories. I understand if you don't want to use these for any reason at all (I could see it being hard to see what's what without any knowledge of Latin being a factor), but I'm going to give them to you so you have the informed choice as to use them or not. That said, if anyone has better translations than mine, please put them forward; even if they don't get used in the game, I'd love to see them.

Unless you were writing all of these in Italian, in which case just ignore everything here.

General:
You keep using the word "Dwarvica"... it doesn't work in Latin, and for multiple reasons: firstly, there is no "W" in Latin, the sound that makes the "w" sound is actually "V", and it should be noted here that "V" and "U" are interchangeable in Latin, but are usually used by modern speakers, the actual Romans made less distinction, for when the letter is being used as a consonant or vowel respectively; meaning that a more accurate Latin-ish word would be Duarvica. Secondly, is the fact that Latin already has a word for "dwarf": pumilio (which can also be used to people with some form of dwarfism), or nanus (which refers exclusively to mythological creatures... but also can be used to refer to gnomes), so neither is really correct as per my understanding, but I'm going to work with pumilio out of personal preference.

Workshops
Manufactura Dwarvica -> Fabricae Pumiliorum. Manufactora is a real adjective meaning "hand-made", (Feminine singular or neuter plural), it does not have anything to do with the place in which those objects were made, no matter what the Techpriests say on the matter. The actual word for a workshop is "fabrica", since this is about more than one workshop, it'll be plural. General complaint as to "Dwarfica"; replacing it with the genitive plural of pumilio.
Sanctorium: The word you're looking for is "sanctorum", no "i". But sanctorum is the genitive plural ([noun] of the holies), so you might want to use "sancta loci" (holy places).
Bibliotheca Dwarfica -> Bibliothecae Pumiliorum. Bibliotheca is arlead correct, just changing it to plural, and my general complaint as to "dwarfica" and again in genitive plural.
Scriptorium: Not a category, but this one is not incorrect at all, in fact, it's perfect just the way it is. Kudos.
Academica Dwarvica -> Scripta Pumiliorum. Academica isn't a word, but "Academia" refers to either Plato's school of philosophy, and they don't qualify as a institution of higher learning; the buildings here are studies, not academies. The Latin word for a study (the location, not the concept of studying) is scriptum with the plural being scripta. If you really want to imply "academy", then the word you're looking for is "academiae". General complaint with dwarvica.
Scientifica Dwarvica -> Laboratoria Pumiliorum. I'm not sure what you mean by "Scientfica", but these are all laboratories, so I'll just call them such.
Machinarium Dwarvica -> Machinae Pumiliorum. Machinarium doesn't seem to be a word, and I can't find any word meaning anyting along the lines of "a place where machines are built", so I'm just going with machina.

Fernaces
Manufactura Dwarvica -> Fabricae Pumiliorum. Same reasoning as above.
Manufactura Metallica -> Fabricae Metallum. Same reasoning for Fabricae, but metallum is just the nominative singular for "metal".
Manufactura Arma -> Fabricae Arma. See above.
Manufactura Upgrada -> Fabricis Amplibus. There is no word for "upgrade" as best as I can tell, so I took the participle of Amplio to get something along the lines of "Factories (for) upgrading"; I have them set in the ablative because the factories are where the upgrading is taking place, and the adjective has to be in the same case as the noun it's modifying.
Academica Magicka -> Scriptae Magiarum. See above for reasoning as per "academia". Magicka isn't even a word in Latin, but from phrasing I'm assuming you're referring to something along the lines of "Schools for teaching magic", so "Studies of Magic" works for that in my opinion.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 01:26:49 am »

Seeing as how the whole point of the categories is to make finding things easier for players, it's not likely that any words a typical English speaker wouldn't be able to recognize immediately will be used, accurate or not.  I'm not sure why the 'dog Latin' (as this kind of thing is typically called) is in there in the first place, but I guess it could be seen as a kind of pseudo-medieval joke, kind of like how the rest of DF is based on a pseudo-medieval setting.

Arcvasti

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 10:43:31 am »

I'm thinking that having the names in real latin would be really cool, but would also dilute their original porpoise of clarifying what each category of workshops does for newer players. Maybe have a button in the GUI saying something like "Complex Category Names" which would toggle between the "dog latin" and your more linguistically accurate translations. Honestly, I could probably recognize what each category was either way as Latin words are pretty similar to French or English words. Except maybe "Amplibus". I would guess that it amplifies things, just from looking at the name.

EDIT: Also, kudos for actually putting [DWARF] over your threads name.
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Grimmash

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 10:43:13 pm »

First, cool.  It is nice to see what "real" versions of the stuff would be called.

Second, I would go with nanus, as DF dwarves, in my mind, are the mythological kind, to each their own.

Third, I think for gamey concepts like magic, dwarves and similar, a fake latin name is ok, for two reasons.  One is that this stuff is made up anyway.  Second, as others have mentioned, there is a ton of stuff in DF, even more in MW, and keeping the names semi-useful for at least English speakers is a nice point.  One reason you see a lot of grammatical errors in MW is because Meph is, if I am not mistaken, German.  So he has already done a nice job translating, much less translating into either Latin or english contrived fuax latin.

Fourth, cool.  I do like a lot of your suggestions.

Fifth, Meph is gone for a few months.  He cranked out all the recent updates and took off.  So if you do not see a response from him, don't take it the wrong way :).

splinterz

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 05:30:16 am »

even though Meph is away, we still try to update SWP with bug fixes and tweaks such as this, so i've added this to the SWP issue tracker, and we'll see what we can do.

Meph

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 03:44:04 pm »

I studied Latin for seven years. I made it very clear that I was using pig latin, when I changed the titles from English to their current form. Actual Latin wouldnt help most users, as would actual dwarvish, which would have been my alternate choice. The community voted pig latin to the top, so I went with that.

I appreciate the facts though. Thanks.
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Delta_02_Cat

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 08:22:52 am »

I really like the "pig Latin", it somehow sounds better then plain English :)
I would not understand a thing if it were real Latin in the game!
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Justyn

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 07:18:24 am »

I studied Latin for seven years. I made it very clear that I was using pig latin, when I changed the titles from English to their current form. Actual Latin wouldnt help most users, as would actual dwarvish, which would have been my alternate choice. The community voted pig latin to the top, so I went with that.

I appreciate the facts though. Thanks.
I suppose it should be chocked up to me not searching enough, because I did look and couldn't find anything besides a mention about the addition of the pig Latin. Also, I'm sorry for casting unintentional aspersions onto your studies.
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Meph

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 03:45:41 pm »

No no, no worries. I quite enjoyed the excursion, and I know how finicky the search function is. But I remember clearly hat I started a big post about it with the words: "I hope you guys like pig latin" before I released anything.

If its really a thing people want, it is just a little work to add it as an option to the GUI. :)
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Szarrukin

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 05:15:59 pm »

Quote
Okay, so while I was starting up a new fort from a new version of the game (I've been on an educationally-related hiatus from DF), and I noticed that the names for the categories used here an there were... I'm going to be blunt, extremely bad Latin.

Warhammer 40.000 must be hell for you.
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Justyn

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 12:03:34 am »

Quote
Okay, so while I was starting up a new fort from a new version of the game (I've been on an educationally-related hiatus from DF), and I noticed that the names for the categories used here an there were... I'm going to be blunt, extremely bad Latin.

Warhammer 40.000 must be hell for you.
40k's psuedo-Latin gobbledegook is just funny to me.

Also...
Manufactora is a real adjective meaning "hand-made", (Feminine singular or neuter plural), it does not have anything to do with the place in which those objects were made, no matter what the Techpriests say on the matter.
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Meph

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 05:29:55 am »

Manufaktur on the other hand is the German word for exactly the place in which things are made by hand. ;)
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Putnam

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Re: [DWARF] So, I know a thing or two about Latin...
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 06:27:57 pm »

I studied Latin for seven years. I made it very clear that I was using pig latin, when I changed the titles from English to their current form. Actual Latin wouldnt help most users, as would actual dwarvish, which would have been my alternate choice. The community voted pig latin to the top, so I went with that.

I appreciate the facts though. Thanks.

Igpay Atinlay isyay otnay Ogday Atinlay :Pay