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Yes!

9 (90%)

No!

0 (0%)

I really don't care!

1 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 10

[Parsely]

1. The gate is our objective. It was said in the mission statement. Killing someone is not completely silent, even marksmen such as ours cannot instantly kill sentries simultaneously in the middle of the night. No matter what we do, we have to open those gates.

2. Opening the gates gets our men inside the castle faster than using ladders all around the fort. You yourself just said that it was an increased chance of detection with more men, so sending 50 with ladders is not going to raise the alarm? It takes more than a few minutes to run 100 yards, prop the ladder against the wall, then climb up it. All the while, the sentries are watching. Even if we send five men with each ladder, it would still take at least ten to fifteen minutes to get all of them on the walls, and then they're spread out.

3. Yes, smaller groups do make a difference. The human eye sees motion in darkness, so the less movement=less detection. As well, having two sets of men increases the chance of success as one getting caught wouldn't affect the other group.

^^This. Crossbows aren't the best stealth weapons. They're not very silent themselves anyways.

Our only objective is the curtain wall. If we open the gates then we've won. The whole army storms in. Game over. The keep isn't our problem, only the guards on the walls after the place is opened up. And we'll just have our men move into the inner courtyard and carefully pick them off.

Even if this plan fails, we've still got two days left, and all we lose is a single man. We have everything to gain.

[PewdsRocks]

How do you know they'll come in at all? Our orders are to take the castle not the walls we have no reason to think they will actually support us. He wants us to soak up the casualties for him he's not going to send his men in to help us if the entire enemy force is still in fighting condition and prepared to fight us while our force is intact.
He won't come in until we've done the fighting for him or until we're dead.

So why go through the trouble of using stealth to get inside if the first thing your going to do is throw away every advantage that stealth has given us? Even if he comes in he's going to send us to take fortress anyway again so we lose men not him.
Our strength is in stealth and ambush if we get inside without raising the alarm then we can take the castle quietly, if we get inside then raise the alarm by opening the gates we have to fight the defenders head on which will cost us because they aren't going to fight us in the open they'll make us fight them in the fort itself in close quarters.

[Parsely]

How do you know they'll come in at all?

We'll ask him to dummy. If we tell him we expect the gates will be open of course he'll be ready to charge in. Even if he is a sick bastard he's without a doubt going to be more interested in victory than any kind of bloodbath. Let's talk to him about our plan before making assumptions.

Crossbows are loud as fuck man. They're not quiet. And besides its unrealistic to expect to fell every single guard in the place without anyone noticing.

Opening the gates isn't guaranteed going to alert the enemy. We'll have time before they even realize we're inside.

[PewdsRocks]

Depends on the gate, it's likely to make a fair amount of noise opening. I don't expect to get them all quietly but a lot more then we get going in this way leaving 2/3 of the sentries or more alive to realize whats going on and raise the alarm.

At the very least we should send in a team on each of the 3 walls. 1 to open the gate and 2 to hit the smaller walls and kill the sentries on them, if nothing else they'll draw some attention away from the gate and at best they'll take out 4-6 more enemies quickly and quietly and completely blind the enemy.

[Baffler]

It doesn't do anyone any good to open the gate with our employer still in his camp. That just gets the alarm raised and our wall-climbers captured or killed. We would have to ask him to prepare for a night attack, which there is very little chance of him being able to do without being noticed by the defenders, and his plan is to let us soak up the casualties anyway, so he is unlikely to do anything until he can just march in.

I figure if the gate is old and dry, it can be set on fire from behind mantlets. Even our band outnumbers the defenders, and it is unlikely that they will all be on the wall with bows/crossbows. We may be able to keep up fire sustained enough to keep the defenders under cover while our men scale the walls. Especially if we wait until the gate is destroyed to make our move on the curtain wall. After that, our responsibility is over and the Count and his men take over.

[PewdsRocks]

Problem is we can't tell where to fire. If they stay low we can't see them on the wall so they can wait where ever we scale it and stab our men as they come over. They don't need to expose themselves to kill our men.

[Baffler]

It's unlikely that they'll just let us burn the gate down though. They will need to expose themselves to fire at us while we approach, and while we destroy the gates.

[PewdsRocks]

Maybe, but they have towers to fire from giving them plenty of cover from return fire that they can use and it only needs 4-6 men on the wall to watch for hooks or ladders and stay down.

[ShadowHammer]

I vote for a single group of 2-4 men sneaking together into the castle and opening the front gate. 2 groups of men would increase our chance of detection because one group will not remain undetected if the other is found: as soon as they are engaged, guards will be rushing, if they have any sense whatsoever, towards the front gates, among other vital places. If we used Pewdsrocks' two groups distract while one opens the gate tactic, all that will happen is they will go into full alert mode, which means manning all stations, thus making it virtually impossible for the last group to sneak into the gatehouse. It would also require several men to undertake a suicide mission, which is bad for morale and loyalty.

I give a general +1 to plans involving sneaking a single small group in and unbarring the gates, assuming that our employer is willing to lend us men to rush into the open gates. If he isn't willing to give us any support at all, then we'll have to go with something else.

Spoiler: more arguing about fire arrows (click to show/hide)

As previously mentioned, lighting large wood things on fire with only fire arrows doesn't work. A good analogy of it that I heard was, "have you ever tried lighting a log on fire by dropping a burning stick on it?" -Will Treaty
We'd have to soak it in oil or something first, which isn't exactly easy.

-snip-
+1 to reconnaissance.

+1 to reconnaissance as well.

[spoiler=Continuing the argument that my treasonous plan wasn't as bad as you all seem to think it was. Somewhat off topic.]

(( Going to the back wouldn't work anyway.

It wouldn't be much of a siege if all he had to do was walk out the back gate to escape us. ))

It's not a siege. It was stated that we are just camping outside the front gate and not trying to cut off supplies or anything.

Note: I'm not promoting betrayal, I'm just saying that my plan wasn't that bad.

Referencing a fiction novel isn't the best idea
Also, did he mention dozens or hundreds of burning sticks? It's not like we're only going to shoot one bolt.
[/quote]
I wasn't citing Ranger's Apprentice as historically accurate, merely as a source of a good and applicable analogy. Yes it's fiction, but that doesn't make that particular statement less valid.

BTW, after this post, I'm going to stop arguing the point, so as to avoid giving our GM ideas.

Anyways, burning the wooden gate still won't work. All that the enemy has to do is dump some water down the front of their wall; they don't even have to expose themselves over the wall top to do so. Even if the ramparts overhang the gates, there are no doubt going to be murder holes, which could be used for water dumping. The simple act of dampening the gate will undoubtedly be enough to stop flames from catching, even if they don't succeed in extinguishing the arrows themselves. Even if they can't get enough water up there in time, a bunch of dirt 'n rocks would probably work just as well, due to the fact that it's likely to snap off the burning arrows.

On the other hand, it was stated that the lord of the castle, who is presumably also the commander, isn't very intelligent, so he might not think of that, or he may be unable to organize a bucket/wheelbarrow brigade in time to stop the fire from catching.

[Parsely]

I vote for a single group of 2-4 men sneaking together into the castle and opening the front gate. 2 groups of men would increase our chance of detection because one group will not remain undetected if the other is found: as soon as they are engaged, guards will be rushing, if they have any sense whatsoever, towards the front gates, among other vital places. If we used Pewdsrocks' two groups distract while one opens the gate tactic, all that will happen is they will go into full alert mode, which means manning all stations, thus making it virtually impossible for the last group to sneak into the gatehouse. It would also require several men to undertake a suicide mission, which is bad for morale and loyalty.

I give a general +1 to plans involving sneaking a single small group in and unbarring the gates, assuming that our employer is willing to lend us men to rush into the open gates. If he isn't willing to give us any support at all, then we'll have to go with something else.

+1 And yes, just tell our employer to be prepared if we manage to get the gates open. Otherwise we'll do our best to handle it.

[WhitiusOpus]

It doesn't do anyone any good to open the gate with our employer still in his camp. That just gets the alarm raised and our wall-climbers captured or killed. We would have to ask him to prepare for a night attack, which there is very little chance of him being able to do without being noticed by the defenders, and his plan is to let us soak up the casualties anyway, so he is unlikely to do anything until he can just march in.

I figure if the gate is old and dry, it can be set on fire from behind mantlets. Even our band outnumbers the defenders, and it is unlikely that they will all be on the wall with bows/crossbows. We may be able to keep up fire sustained enough to keep the defenders under cover while our men scale the walls. Especially if we wait until the gate is destroyed to make our move on the curtain wall. After that, our responsibility is over and the Count and his men take over.

Dude, this was my plan. Like ten posts ago. Please read it.

I vote for a single group of 2-4 men sneaking together into the castle and opening the front gate. 2 groups of men would increase our chance of detection because one group will not remain undetected if the other is found: as soon as they are engaged, guards will be rushing, if they have any sense whatsoever, towards the front gates, among other vital places. If we used Pewdsrocks' two groups distract while one opens the gate tactic, all that will happen is they will go into full alert mode, which means manning all stations, thus making it virtually impossible for the last group to sneak into the gatehouse. It would also require several men to undertake a suicide mission, which is bad for morale and loyalty.

I give a general +1 to plans involving sneaking a single small group in and unbarring the gates, assuming that our employer is willing to lend us men to rush into the open gates. If he isn't willing to give us any support at all, then we'll have to go with something else.

+1 And yes, just tell our employer to be prepared if we manage to get the gates open. Otherwise we'll do our best to handle it.

Fine, +1 to staying together, and make that band 4 men. If our employer doesn't help us, we can send in our own men. We outnumber the enemy, and their only real advantages are the castle walls.

[Baffler]

-snip-

Whoops, sorry about that. I suppose we're in agreement then, +1.

[Parsely]

Bump.

[Beneviento]

You tell the Count your plan, of a night attack followed by an attack the next day if it fails, and he answers with approval, noting that even if the night attack fails it will mean a weakened, tired enemy the following day, and agrees to be ready to support you if it succeeds. You decide that a single group of 4 men would have the greatest chance of success in stealthily opening the gate, and you equip them with grapnels and rope. You instruct them to eliminate any sentries around the gate and open it, after which the rest of your men will enter the castle, kill anyone on the ground, and clear the walls. The Count will take it from there.

Each day, you make demonstrations around the walls, though the Count refuses to take part in any such shenanigans. The enemy are worried the first day, but less so on the second day, after you have done the same action twice. The night of the second day, you make sure all your men are well-armed, and manage to procure swords for all of them from the Count, who had anticipated having more men under his command to arm. Struck by inspiration, you order two men to go around the castle, gather wood, and light a fire near the walls, to distract the defenders. They do so, although they cannot get much of a blaze going, you notice the smoke rising behind the hill as you move forward.

Filled with a nervous feeling, you send your climbers on their way. They are the best scouts in your band, and you lose track of them almost instantly in the darkness. you hear nothing for a few minutes, but then a horn blows, and you know that your lads have done it. You order the rest of the band forward, and find the gate open.Your four picked men were able to easily climb the walls, kill the four sentries guarding the gate, and the first the tired and flame-dazzled men in the towers around the walls know of your presence, your entire band is in the courtyard, and ascending onto the walls.

Fighting begins in earnest, but as about 10 of the men of the garrison are inside the keep, the men in the towers and on the walls are outnumbered by more than 2 to one, unwinnable odds considered the quality of your men against theirs, even with the advantage of the towers. You storm first one tower, then the other, then finally the third. You signal the Count and he moves up into the castle, signifying that your role in the righting is over. You have killed 13 enemies and taken 5 prisoner, but have lost 5 of your own men and Tolver and another man are wounded, Tolver with only a flesh wound, the other man with a badly broken leg taken falling from the wall, and you believe he will not recover for several weeks.

The taking of the keep is the Count's responsibility, but the doors are closed and barred, though it seems the men inside have no ranged weapons, so you are free to move around the courtyard. About 60 of the Count's men are massed in the yard and seem to be getting ready to do something to finish the enemy. The Lord of Jeg is inside the keep with about 10 of his men.

What will you do now?

Spoiler: Cedric Stoneye (click to show/hide)

Name: Cedric Stoneye
Age: 32, born Spring, Year 1213 (Currently Summer, Year 1245)
Possessions: Average Crossbow, Forester's hat, Average Clothes, Above Average Observer, Mail hauberk, 150 Crowns(currency)
Health: Excellent
Skills: Good Crossbowman, Good Leader, Above Average Tactician, Fair Siege Engineer

Spoiler: The Aldornian Foresters (click to show/hide)

44 Crossbowmen, 1 officers (1 wounded crossbowman, 1 wounded officer.)
Good Crossbowmen
Good Scouts
Above Average Ambushers
Tired
Supplies: Excellent
Morale: Good

(OOC: Sorry for taking so long about making another update, I've had a lot going on with the end of the quarter at school and other such things. Here we go! Also, Shadowhammer, did you read The Royal Ranger, and is it worth reading? I've been getting mixed reviews on it from others, with some saying the lost stories was a better way to end the series.)

[smurfingtonthethird]

Medic the wounded, give the men a rest. Acquire payment if our job is done.