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[Girlinhat]

Alright, I've heard plenty of people say that they want us to pretty much own the metal market. Well, I was looking through it earlier and I noticed something. Now several of us have sold things on the marketplace, but all of the prices are vastly different. We were all undercutting each other's prices. It might be worth looking into to set a 'standardized' price for some of the consumables.

High enough that we still make a profit, but low enough that we undercut the prices of the other players. If we all sell items at the same price, they are forced to buy from us. We're given them better deals than most of the other players in the game, and there are enough of us that we could likely force the market to sell from that price. Sure, I imagine a few players could undercut our prices, but the idea is that we get the price just write so it would be effort for them to do it without much of a payoff.

To be honest, I haven't put much thought at all into this idea. So it could just be horrible or not make much sense at all. Anyways, your thoughts on this?

Highly support this.  If we're going to corner the market, we need to do so as a group effort, and that means getting organized.

[Xardalas]

I'm glad for the support. We need to set a decent price. Enough that we feel rewarded for the work, but low enough that undercutting us in prices just isn't worth it. If you want example of how this would work. Think of the gas prices in the US. All of them are nearly the same. Sure,one brand might be a few cents cheaper than another. But in the long run that won't fuck with the profits of them to much. Enough of the companies got together to literally 'force' the gas market price into the same general area.

We'd need a concerted effort from  all the smiths. If only a few of us do it, it's not likely to affect much. It need the weight of all of B12 thrown behind it. Or at least, as many of us as I can convince to do it. The sooner we get the market 'stabilized' the better and easier it will be for all of us to find items at decent prices.

[Graknorke]

Okay, so we'll have to compile a list of every metal item and what to sell it for?
That sounds cumbersome.

[Tnx]

Not only that, but prices will be fluctuating too.

[Xardalas]

Not every item. The main things I was considering were consumables. There will always be a market for those. From what I've seen, i that the market for other consumable items tends to be iffy. And it would be nearly impossible to try and set prices for every item considering the dozens of qualities they all have. That list would likely rival a DF industry flow chart.

Gah. Like I said, I haven't put a lot of thought into this idea. >.< Yall are more than welcome to throw your two sense into the matter and see if we can straighten this out some.

*Edit* Besides, the reason people seem to price things so highly is because all the consumables they need to make said item are priced stupidly high sometimes. Wouldn't  'stabilizing' the consumables market lower the prices of items in general? Well, at least I hope they would. They'd probably do the same thing company's do and just keep the prices the same and rake in more profits.

[Graknorke]

Well, assuming that the demand stays about the same, we could either have a list for material and then modifiers that remain even across every material; however, we could also have the pricing based on the bonuses given by the consumable. The second would probably actually be more practical, since that's really what people are buying.

[Girlinhat]

Well, assuming that the demand stays about the same, we could either have a list for material and then modifiers that remain even across every material; however, we could also have the pricing based on the bonuses given by the consumable. The second would probably actually be more practical, since that's really what people are buying.

Really, it's a matter of skill and material, rather than actual tool value.  So it depends on the material used and the skill required to produce, that really determines the value in this sort of economy.

[Xardalas]

Well, assuming that the demand stays about the same, we could either have a list for material and then modifiers that remain even across every material; however, we could also have the pricing based on the bonuses given by the consumable. The second would probably actually be more practical, since that's really what people are buying.

Really, it's a matter of skill and material, rather than actual tool value.  So it depends on the material used and the skill required to produce, that really determines the value in this sort of economy.

+1 Not to mention the effort and time that goes into making such an item.

[Girlinhat]

The actual time spent making an item is barely a concern, not for things like chisels and pickaxes, which might take a half hour.  The real value is all the time spent BEFORE that, grinding through tin and bronze to level up to be able to produce these things at all.

If you're making like, a scaffolding or an oven, those take considerable time, and THOSE should count time into cost, but not common tools I don't think.

[Graknorke]

Well, assuming that the demand stays about the same, we could either have a list for material and then modifiers that remain even across every material; however, we could also have the pricing based on the bonuses given by the consumable. The second would probably actually be more practical, since that's really what people are buying.

Really, it's a matter of skill and material, rather than actual tool value.  So it depends on the material used and the skill required to produce, that really determines the value in this sort of economy.

I'm not really understanding this. Skill is only valuable insofar as something being more difficult to produce and there'll be less of it, and for material there was the example earlier of bronze sieves. Why would someone pay more for something that gives no tangible benefit over something cheaper?

[Girlinhat]

Maybe, but it's a matter of skill AND material.  Tin is a LOT easier to come by than bronze, you can just buy the stuff in ingots.  A precise tin tool will still be cheaper than a regular bronze tool, because the tin is SO MUCH cheaper.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

The reason tin is so cheap is because of the miserable stats. Copper ingots sell for 3s/piece due to the usefulness of the material, despite it being incredibly easy to come by.

If tin had a flexibility/prestige/precision [any stat, really] of 10 it'd be a whole different ballgame for its pricing. Unfortunately, the stats are godawful and therefore its only useful for skill grinding early on.

[Nirur Torir]

I have the start of a spreadsheet for woodworking time calculations. I'll spend more time today tinkering with it.

If anyone can get the formulas for alchemy, I think I could make a calculator for it, taking into account what resources the potion maker has access to.

Spoiler: I have this from the game forums, but it's not a formula. (click to show/hide)

First/second/third are 50%/30%/20%.
Regenerative Regeneration Stimulant Fortifying Accelerating
Healing Healing Fortifying Energizing Activating
Coordination Blunt offence Energizing Stimulant Fortifying
Coordination Piercing offence Stimulant Accelerating Focusing
Coordination Slashing offence Invigorating Activating Calming
Coordination Blunt defence Activating Fortifying Energizing
Coordination Piercing defence Focusing Fortifying Stimulant
Coordination Slashing defence Calming Accelerating Invigorating
Dexterity Taming Energizing Calming Focusing
Dexterity Forge Fortifying Accelerating Stimulant
Dexterity Stonecutting Focusing Activating Fortifying
Meticulousness Archaeology Activating Invigorating Stimulant
Meticulousness Sewing Invigorating Focusing Energizing
Meticulousness Woodworking Calming Activating Fortifying
Meticulousness Herbalism Fortifying Calming Accelerating
Meticulousness Jewellery Fortifying Calming Focusing
Meticulousness Tanning Focusing Stimulant Energizing
Mobility Cave Energizing Invigorating Accelerating
Mobility Hills Activating Calming Fortifying
Mobility Desert Focusing Calming -
Mobility Forest Energizing Stimulant Calming
Mobility Marsh Activating Accelerating -
Mobility Mountain Accelerating Stimulant Focusing
Mobility Snow Invigorating Activating -
Mobility Plains Accelerating Invigorating Fortifying
Mobility Urban Activating Energizing Focusing
Vision Aerial Fortifying Energizing Focusing
Vision Botany Focusing Stimulant Invigorating
Vision Hunting Activating Fortifying Accelerating
Vision Exploration Calming Invigorating Energizing
Vision Naval Accelerating Focusing Calming
Vision Prospection Stimulant Accelerating Activating
Vision Land Activating Calming Fortifying
Endurance Horticulture Calming Stimulant Focusing
Endurance Carpentry Energizing Activating Invigorating
Endurance Woodcutting Focusing Invigorating Energizing
Endurance Extraction Stimulant Calming Activating
Endurance Foundrywork Invigorating Focusing Calming
Endurance Masonry Activating Fortifying Accelerating
Intelligence Anatomy Focusing Activating -
Intelligence Breeding Focusing Activating Fortifying
Intelligence Engineering Energizing Accelerating Focusing
Intelligence Leadership Stimulant Calming Energizing
Intelligence Commerce Accelerating Energizing Stimulant
Intelligence Spying Activating Invigorating Focusing
Intelligence Alchemy Calming Fortifying Focusing

[Shooer]

Also we aren't talking about making tools (a recyclable item and can therefore easily become a saturated market) but consumables like blades and chisels.  By making items that are produced in large quantities and used in great quantities and will always be in demand we can be assured sales and therefore profit.

I also suggest we corner the bronze market.  A reason to corner something like bronze is because even though higher tier resources need a better consumable a player who can make those higher tier items should have access to workshops that provide greater bonuses than the public ones.  In fact I'm waiting to do a lot of masonry work until I can set up a workshop with a really good machine so I can save money on concrete.

Still not a bad idea to move to iron once we have enough people who can work in it.  That is IF we are going to corner metal working.  That isn't the greatest concentration of our players, we just have a lot of people who've trained into it because they needed consumables.  Could instead corner ampule production (would employ at least 3 different professions) or carpentry or masonry construction material (we're not the only ones interested in making a guild, and those others will be looking for hundreds of walls, foundations, roofs, towers, fortifications ect. (Would employ stone, wood, metal, and science at least)).

Could even figure out some kind of set of resources we could corner together as well.

[Girlinhat]

If we can saturate the market for consumable tools, that's an assured take of profit from anyone buying, and makes others less likely to try and enter the market, because we've already got it.  Getting the prices down for chisels and blades seems perfectly fine.