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[Greiger]

My best friend since middle school got his own place a few years back.  His mom's house used to be a rental property but the owner gave the place up to the bank.  So they had to move out.  His mother had made few if any attempts to actually find a place, so since he was old enough he found a place of his own.  His mother and niece also moved in with him, because apparently the bank came a knocking shortly after he got the place and evicted them.  He knew it was a terrible idea, one of the reasons he went to find his own place is that he found them all stifling, but he did it anyway.

Now it's a few years later, his mother and niece are living with him, his mother is employed and contributing, but his niece is a deadbeat, she refuses to work, go to school or do anything but be a drain on the household.  My friend depends on his internet connection for his job, he's a work at home web programmer.

His niece is changing the settings for his router almost daily, complaining that her wifi is bad.  I've gone over there and identified the problem as her room being on the other side of the house from the wireless router in a house made entirely out of concrete. And she insists I don't know what I'm talking about. There have been many occurrences where she changes the wifi settings in such a way that only she can access the network, while my friend is working.  She has also called the internet service provider multiple times, and having a tech come out to "fix the problem".  Which usually just has them change out the router, requiring my friend and his boss to reconfigure the VPN.

My friend is worried that the ISP will drop them because they are costing them more to have a tech sent out every week than they get from their payment, the ISP is the only reliable ISP in this area.  If the ISP drops them he will also be unable to work for all the time it takes for the service to be changed.

He is apparently not taken seriously by anyone in the house, and his concerns are ignored.  His mother thinks that him changing the settings back so he can work is what's causing the problems with his niece's internet.   

I have suggested he change the password to the router, he apparently did it once, but his mother pressured him to change it back when his niece complained, when he did it again and refused his niece called the ISP and made them change out the router box (again while he was working without telling anyone).   I have suggested he kick his deadbeat niece out, but he says his mom won't allow it.   I suggested that he tell the isp to no longer take requests from his niece, but he says that while he pays for the internet, it's his sister's name on the account and claims that his sister set his niece up to have more authority than him.  I suggested he get the internet changed over, but he requires his mother's car to do it, and his mother again won't allow it.  When I offer to drive him he does not want to go against his mother's wishes.

I'm out of ideas what to tell him.  His mother doesn't make enough to pay the payments, and he makes twice as much as she does with his programming job.  But if things continue with his niece he will no longer be employed, and he refuses to put his foot down.  Anybody else have any ideas what he or I should do?  I don't want to simply abandon him, we've been friends too long, and I don't want to see him out on the street, but at the same time it seems like he doesn't want to help me help himself, and I'm getting tired of hearing him complain all the time.

[Tiruin]

Did you give him advice on how to ask his niece about her matters (since what characteristic she's showing seems to be the root of this)? A family/relatives should stick together, not be selfish and tear for their own gain.

...Also I really think that the suggestion on kicking her out was really out of place (unless...that's a thing, there. Here, its inconsiderable). Ask or help him educate them on how these things (net speed//WiFi) works, because a person's ignorance of a matter is a root of a problem itself-wherein ignorance = perceived 'right' when it is a limited understanding.

Also perhaps suggest something his niece could do to help around?

[gimlet]

Yeah, none of them has any incentive to change behavior if he just shells out for everything and never makes a fuss.  OK here's one thought:  Do you (or maybe another friend) have room enough where he could stay for at least a few months?  Then he could be out of the house, cancel the internet there, put all the utilities into his mom's name, pay just enough to make sure his mom can cover the rent and survive.  If they (ie his niece, I bet his mom doesn't use the internet much if at all) want luxuries like internet, they can find their own way to pay for it.  His mom might get motivated to crack down a bit if money is actually tight and waste will be making trouble for her instead of him...

Since he probably won't go for that, a couple more quick ideas, from most harsh to least harsh:
- He could get a wireless hotspot and use that instead of wired internet, that way he could take it with him when he's out of the house.  If he streams a LOT of data that could get expensive.  If he's not watching movies/downloading tons of stuff all the time it should be plenty.  They even have prepaid wireless hotspots so it will stop instead of running up an insanely high bill if he accidently uses a lot of data.  He can keep the hotspot in his pocket, and only turn it on if *he's* using it.  Cancel the wired internet.  "Dear deadbeat niece:  Internet is not a right.  If you want it, find a way to pay for it."
- Change the password on the wireless router, lock it in a cabinet so it can't be reset.
- See if he can put security on his internet account, so they'll only take instructions and trouble tickets from him and not anyone in the house who calls.
- Do a ghetto network, buy a long cat5 cable (like $20-$30 for a 50' cable if you don't shop the lowest price place.  $6.50+shipping or so from monoprice.com, $9 for a 75 footer) and run it to her room so she'll stfu.  Ugly, but he's a guy and probably doesn't care how it looks - I have pcs hooked up this way and I sure don't
- Buy a long cat5 cable and run it *nearer* to her room, put the wireless router there.

[Greiger]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  My friend is who called his niece a deadbeat in the first place which is what prompted me to suggest kicking her out. She's also older, plenty old enough to have a job, she's at least 21,  Her mom buys her cigarettes, though my friend suspects it's being taken out of the shared account that's supposed to go to maintaining the house, emergencies, and bills.

Did you give him advice on how to ask his niece about her matters (since what characteristic she's showing seems to be the root of this)? A family/relatives should stick together, not be selfish and tear for their own gain.

He claims his whole family is like this, and it's why his dad left.  He sometimes jokes that he must be adopted.


Educating them sounds like a good idea.  I'll suggest it once he's off work.  But they already don't trust me to know what I'm talking about since they think I'm just trying to look smart and don't think computer tech support is a skilled job.  But I might be able to convince him to try.  He says they don't take him seriously though, so I'm not sure how that will go.

@gimlet
He would probably got for that but I would only be able to board him up here for a few days, and our circle of local friends is limited.

- Change the password on the wireless router, lock it in a cabinet so it can't be reset.

I've suggested he change the password but his niece either complains to his mom to get her to pressure him to change it back, or calls the isp to make them do it.  The router is physically located in his mother's room, because her room is the most central place the router can be placed.  (other options being the bathroom and laundry room, it has a very odd layout.) I'll ask if it can be locked up somewhere though.

- See if he can put security on his internet account, so they'll only take instructions and trouble tickets from him and not anyone in the house who calls.

He tells me that his sister owns the account, he just pays for it.  So his sister can override anything he tells them.  He also thinks that his niece has more rights on the account than him since she's the owner's daughter or something like that.  Now that she's being more annoying about it he might be more willing to try that.  Or maybe even convince him to put it under his own name.[/quote]

- Do a ghetto network

I can see if he's willing to put down more cable.  I have some cat5 and the tool to put ends on and I know how, I'm just out of ends.  I also don't know if it would reach that far.  If he's willing to do that it could work, but I don't know if she actually owns a computer, I think it's just a few cell phones (at least 2, both active) and a handheld game console.  Then the router could feasibly be moved into there then, or even just a wifi spot could be put on the end of it.

[MorleyDev]

"Respect yourself enough to walk away from anything that no longer serves you, grows you or makes you happy" applies to family as much as anything else. He should establish dominance and if that fails, actually kick them out. Tell niece to leave, if mother objects tell her she's free to join her. If he's not willing to tell them basically "My house, my rules", and to follow through with it, then he has no reason to expect anything different.

[Vector]

He tells me that his sister owns the account, he just pays for it.  So his sister can override anything he tells them.  He also thinks that his niece has more rights on the account than him since she's the owner's daughter or something like that.  Now that she's being more annoying about it he might be more willing to try that.  Or maybe even convince him to put it under his own name.

This is what he should focus on.  If he's paying for it, his sister's name should not be on the account.

[nenjin]

I'd say just evict the niece, but unfortunately in a lot of states, once you let someone move into your home, regardless of whether you're charging them rent, they can claim that being evicted places an undue hardship on them. There have been cases of total deadbeat scumbags basically getting court-ordered protection against eviction, despite the claim of the legitimate, bill-paying home owner.

So I dunno what the laws in their area are like. But if evicting her is an option, he should do it. Because that doesn't sound like the kind of attitude that will change.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

He tells me that his sister owns the account, he just pays for it.  So his sister can override anything he tells them.  He also thinks that his niece has more rights on the account than him since she's the owner's daughter or something like that.  Now that she's being more annoying about it he might be more willing to try that.  Or maybe even convince him to put it under his own name.

This is what he should focus on.  If he's paying for it, his sister's name should not be on the account.

I agree. Whoever pays for it needs to be the administrator. If that person doesn't have admin skills, the most-skilled AND most-responsible potential admin should be given the appropriate privileges.

Your friend has tried being nice, has tried being reasonable, has tried enduring silently, and has tried being sneaky. His niece is selfish and stupid, in that her goal is to have internet access regardless of anyone else, but his goal is to get everyone internet access. Nobody is willing to support him on this issue. It is time for him to have full and sole control over the internet.

1: Do not ask permission. Just lay the cable around corners under those plastic strips and give each bedroom a hookup. Disable the wireless.
2: Sit the niece down and tell her she needs to stop playing with the router. She doesn't know what she's doing and she's only screwing things up. Just stop it. No ultimatums, no threats, no conversation. Just fucking stop logging into or touching the router.
3: Sit the mom down and tell her that the niece doesn't know what she's doing, and her constant screwups are going to mean the ISP is going to start charging for service calls. And it's the mom who will have to foot the extra bill because you're not gonna do it.
4: Call the ISP, ask them if they can clear all owners and put him as the sole account holder. If they can't do that, go to the mother and tell her he's not paying for internet until he gets that control. He's the breadwinner and the niece is sabotaging that. The ultimatum here is that if things don't improve he will move out and leave them both in the lurch, and if that happens he won't send the mom any help - zero fucking dollars - until she kicks the niece out.

This is just a stupid situation and the niece is lucky we live in a pleasant, civilized society where it's frowned upon to beat the shit out of assholes until they stop being assholes.

[nenjin]

You know another alternative is to just move, secretly. It's a dick move to his mother, filial piety and all that, but she doesn't really seem on the up-and-up herself, despite at least paying bills.

All I know is, there's no way I'd put with being pushed around in my own home by people who are living there by sufferance. No way in hell.

[Tiruin]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  My friend is who called his niece a deadbeat in the first place which is what prompted me to suggest kicking her out. She's also older, plenty old enough to have a job, she's at least 21,  Her mom buys her cigarettes, though my friend suspects it's being taken out of the shared account that's supposed to go to maintaining the house, emergencies, and bills.

Did you give him advice on how to ask his niece about her matters (since what characteristic she's showing seems to be the root of this)? A family/relatives should stick together, not be selfish and tear for their own gain.

He claims his whole family is like this, and it's why his dad left.  He sometimes jokes that he must be adopted.


Educating them sounds like a good idea.  I'll suggest it once he's off work.  But they already don't trust me to know what I'm talking about since they think I'm just trying to look smart and don't think computer tech support is a skilled job.  But I might be able to convince him to try.  He says they don't take him seriously though, so I'm not sure how that will go.

Then keep on fighting for it. If they remain stubborn, find a different approach--but let him let them realize that where they're going?
It's going to kill them. (and the cigarettes, of course).

Also on the account: she really should be paying for it if its under her name--or at least should show some heart in regard to who is providing it. :/
I guess the problem lies in why they're...selfish-ish.


Edit: Could you and him probably confront them on the problems going on, as in directly?

[Greiger]

In the past whenever he tries to talk about something serious his mother panics.  She is a very panicky woman.

Seems that while he was working today his niece cut his internet again, this time during a meeting he was skyped into.  Knowing full well that he was working and knowing full well that resetting the router would knock him off.  His mother then yelled at him for making a scene around guests (the ISP guy who came and reset it.).

Spoke to him and it seems he agrees that the best thing to do right now is to get the account under his own name, either a second one while he stops paying for the first or the account being transferred, and work out the rest once that gets settled.

[Tiruin]

In the past whenever he tries to talk about something serious his mother panics.  She is a very panicky woman.

Seems that while he was working today his niece cut his internet again, this time during a meeting he was skyped into.  Knowing full well that he was working and knowing full well that resetting the router would knock him off.  His mother then yelled at him for making a scene around guests (the ISP guy who came and reset it.).

Spoke to him and it seems he agrees that the best thing to do right now is to get the account under his own name, either a second one while he stops paying for the first or the account being transferred, and work out the rest once that gets settled.

Oh dear :s

Hmm. Try a new approach--approach the problem diplomatically. Calm. And get to the point first, what his qualms are. Like when he talks to his mother--ask her to not panic.

On that note, I feel a bit mischievous when I say that when the IP person comes around, he could casually talk about what's bugging him (ie forced attempt to cut internet and how to alleviate it, not naming anyone directly)...

[Vattic]

If talking with his mother is a problem then writing a letter might work as an alternative. Sounds like none of them can afford for him to lose his job and that needs to be made clear. I'm not sure how he can avoid his niece unplugging the router even if it is in his name.

[Tiruin]

I'd verge on curiosity and push forward the notion that his friend speak calmly and rationally (ie no temper stuff brought in or shouting) at his niece because it seems she has...
erm, something not good in her attitude that should be adjusted, or helped with.

[kaijyuu]

Sounds like he really needs to put his foot down.