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[IndigoFenix]

Yeah, this is a vanilla bug with probability syndromes.
Long story short, when you load a game and an active syndrome exists on a creature, it will automatically apply every symptom of that syndrome regardless of probability.  As Meph suspected, splitting each effect into a separate syndrome will fix this.

[mahrgell]

Could you do that for me and send me the changed files?
*looks like a bunny*
I have nooooo idea about raws

Then I could start the whole thing over...
I personally think the transformations are really cool, so I want to keep them, but being unable to save is... disastrous.

[Arcvasti]

Well this throws a BIT of a wrench in things. Looks like probability and kobolds REALLY don't get along. I was planning to start my fort today. : ( If no one else more experienced steps up in a few days, I'll try to diddle the syndromes so they don't have the "All effects on reloading" bug. Or I could actually just start my fort anyways since I was planning to rely on bloodwine or maybe a magmaling-induced water reservoir for drinks. Or just try and figure out how to raw things.

EDIT: Whoa syndromes are complex. Even in valnilla. This could be harder then I thought.

EDITX2COMBO: Actually this isn't that bad. Assuming I can find where the syndromes for toad extract are and find a way to tack a probability onto each one seperately, I think I'll be fine. The wiki has a nice extensive article on syndrome raws.

EDITX3COMBO: Yeah, this seems like it'll be a simple fix. I'll try to have it up by tomorrow at latest. Also, syndromes have SO MANY possibilities. I have a new respect for Toady for putting in all these functions he hasn't even used in valnilla yet.

[Arcvasti]

I'm about 90% sure that I've got both problems fixed right now. Raw-only modding sure is simple. At least compared to coding, which I'm only a novice at. Unless I messed up something strange and arcane in the raws everything is fine. Still need to test things out, but everything seems fine to me. 

[mahrgell]

Upload those bit, as soon as you have it working
Then I will start again...

[mahrgell]

But even though the thread is now overshadowed by the save/load bug... The reason the camp failed was completely different... And tbh I found it quite hilarious to watch:


12th Limestone
kamikazi: Who are you?
Kobold: I don't know.
Kamikazi: And how did you get here?
Kobold: I don't know.
Kamikazi: And what's your name?
Kobold: I don't know.
Kamikazi: Toad damnit! Okay, from now on you are called Spascala! But still... How did you get here?
Tenderroast: Erm... boss. Maybe it was the breeding warren.
Kamikazi: What? What did you do?
Tenderroast: Erm... There was a sign, telling me to put some meat and leather onto the bed. And when I opened the door again later, this Kobold jumped out.
Kamikazi: So you are telling me, that that Kobolds are nothing but some piece of leather, filled with meat?
Tenderroast: Erm... That's not what I said...
Kamikazi: But...
Tenderroast: I think you are right.
Kamikazi: Awesome... Frustrating when thinking about myself...but it may save this camp...
Spascala: And what are we going to do now?
Kamikazi: Get to work... like everybody else here. And Tenderroast... get us some more meatbags...

(3 more were created)

25th Limestone
Some Kobold: BLIZZARD MEN!!!
TheCorpse: Stop shouting... We have seen so many scary creatures on this glacier...
Some Kobold: But they.... They are opposed to life, they attack everything.
Tenderroast: Where is kamikazi? He would know what to do.
LMeire: Unconcious.
Shens(Ram): uiiiiiik
TheCorpse: Toad dam.... ATTAAAAACK!!!!


26th Limestone
The fight quickly turned into 3 separate fights, as there were 3 Blizzardmen. One got knocked unconcious, and now all (not sleeping) Bolds were hitting at the poor thing, but unable to break the head, as most had forgotten their weapon and obviously bone pointy sticks are just useless...
The second one got heavily injured by 2 Shalswars, and then started to run, chased by the Shalswars. And the third one won his duel agianst a Shalswars, before he got into a fight with a dozen toads, which made him run again...

27th Limestone
There is no fight without extra fun...

So now 17 Bolds (minus some sleeping and Kingu still being unconcious) were trying to break the Blizzardmens skull...


28th Limestone
That's not enough chaos? Okay, how about that:
http://i.imgur.com/XJzjrGk.png
Sadly, the 2 running Blizzardmen turned back to fight and killed another Shalswar, bring down our population to one... No more breeding them. But then they were overpowered by our jackrats and toads, before also the new arrivals started beating at their head... So no everyone was busy, trying to cave in the skull of some Blizzardmen... That could take some time... But certainly trains their combat skills.

9th Sandstone
Still the same... The Kobolds may actually pass out due to lack of drinks...
Oh and they are training well:


5th Timber
By now Kingu died to starvation (but there was nothing that could have been done for him) kamikazi and Tenderroast seem to share his fate soon.
But even worse, most likely everyone will die to dehydration. Not because we have nothing to dirnk... But because there is no way to disengage combat and get them to drink. The only way to disengage is to make them civilians... But then they immediatetly run from the unconcious Blizzardmen and won't get close to the drinks...
And the Blizzardmen are resiting their death for more then a month now... All fighters are legendary wresters/spearbolds by now, but that doesn't do shit against a Blizzardmen skull.

1st Moonstone
Few Kobolds have already died, we are down to 11 (from 20).


8th Moonstone
After 2 months of fighting everyone is dead. Not from the fighting, but because of dehydration.
Yeah... Really. We all died of dehydration, even though we had >200 drinks... Only because there were some unconcious Blizzardmen lying around... And their skulls were to hard for our military and their bodies too scary for our civilians...

[mahrgell]

As I have to reembark anyway...
Next time I will bring at least one weapon with me, like some cheap machete, to chop of heads ^^
I can probably save a bit on jackrats and toads, they are breeding fast enough....

Anyway, I think I have never seen a fortress succumb this way...

[Arcvasti]

Something weird is hapening: Each time they drink the shots, they ALWAYS transform into a bebilith or a ram. I'm going to try lowering the probability of those ones to 1% and if that doesn't work, remove them. The rest of the random effects seem to be working just fine. Each creature had a different mix of "Drowsy" or "Dizzy" or "Fever" and such. Also, the shots now give 15 units that stay quite nicely in a barrel. At least THAT'S fixed. Haven't tested the whole "All effects when reloading the save game" thing though.

FAKEEDIT: Actually, everybody in the military is really viable with toad extract as your only drink. It gives a LOT of beneficial combat effects.

[mahrgell]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I don't want to miss out those effects. And honestly... If those don't work it just means, that probably nothing works, those are just the only two that show itself immediately ^^

[milo christiansen]

I almost had a dwarf fort die to that once, but I used "slayrace him" so it didn't :p

Come to think of it, it was a glacier fort and the enemies were blizzard men...

BTW: toad extract is hilarious!

[Arcvasti]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I don't want to miss out those effects. And honestly... If those don't work it just means, that probably nothing works, those are just the only two that show itself immediately ^^

I think it might just be a quirk of the transformation command. Or it might just have been bad luck. My starting 7 could have just all been affected by the 14% chance of transforming. I'm retrying with the probability nominally at 1%. And more kobolds at embark for a better testing pool. If that doesn't work then I could try doing some sort of workaround like giving the kobolds an interaction that transforms them instead of doing it directly. The rest seem to work fine, but I'll have to do another test-embark without the transformation syndromes interfering to find that out. Still haven't tested the save-reload bug. It sounds like that bug was only a part of the problem in the first place. If this doesn't work, then I'll solicit assistance on the modding boards.

Also, I'd like input from anyone who has used toad extract WITHOUT a kobold transforming into something. If its in an earlier version, please mention it. If its this version, then that make the problem WAY simpler.

[mahrgell]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I don't want to miss out those effects. And honestly... If those don't work it just means, that probably nothing works, those are just the only two that show itself immediately ^^

I think it might just be a quirk of the transformation command. Or it might just have been bad luck. My starting 7 could have just all been affected by the 14% chance of transforming. I'm retrying with the probability nominally at 1%. And more kobolds at embark for a better testing pool. If that doesn't work then I could try doing some sort of workaround like giving the kobolds an interaction that transforms them instead of doing it directly. The rest seem to work fine, but I'll have to do another test-embark without the transformation syndromes interfering to find that out. Still haven't tested the save-reload bug. It sounds like that bug was only a part of the problem in the first place. If this doesn't work, then I'll solicit assistance on the modding boards.

Also, I'd like input from anyone who has used toad extract WITHOUT a kobold transforming into something. If its in an earlier version, please mention it. If its this version, then that make the problem WAY simpler.

My bold were drinking it all the time, and it worked perfectly fine. Mahrgell trsnformed as the only victim of it...
Later I had the starting 7 transform due to the save/reload.
But they had drunk toad extract before... Also the later arrivals all drank it without any issues at all(well... they surely had some hidden effects, some vomited, some slept forever, blabla... nothing drastic). Only save/reload was bugged in the normal MWDF solution.

[Arcvasti]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I don't want to miss out those effects. And honestly... If those don't work it just means, that probably nothing works, those are just the only two that show itself immediately ^^

I think it might just be a quirk of the transformation command. Or it might just have been bad luck. My starting 7 could have just all been affected by the 14% chance of transforming. I'm retrying with the probability nominally at 1%. And more kobolds at embark for a better testing pool. If that doesn't work then I could try doing some sort of workaround like giving the kobolds an interaction that transforms them instead of doing it directly. The rest seem to work fine, but I'll have to do another test-embark without the transformation syndromes interfering to find that out. Still haven't tested the save-reload bug. It sounds like that bug was only a part of the problem in the first place. If this doesn't work, then I'll solicit assistance on the modding boards.

Also, I'd like input from anyone who has used toad extract WITHOUT a kobold transforming into something. If its in an earlier version, please mention it. If its this version, then that make the problem WAY simpler.

My bold were drinking it all the time, and it worked perfectly fine. Mahrgell trsnformed as the only victim of it...
Later I had the starting 7 transform due to the save/reload.
But they had drunk toad extract before... Also the later arrivals all drank it without any issues at all(well... they surely had some hidden effects, some vomited, some slept forever, blabla... nothing drastic). Only save/reload was bugged in the normal MWDF solution.

Huh, must just be bad luck then. I've already split up the toad effects into 50 different syndromes, so that SHOULD solve that. I might also consider lowering the duration of the transformations if I they still all transform on reload. Having no kobolds for 2 months is better then no kobolds for 6 months.

[Arcvasti]

This is interesting. Everything seemed to work fine, no one transformed when they drank the first time. 4 kobolds were sleeping permanantly because they received both unconsciousness and NO_STUN which makes them sleep forever. Or in this case until it wears off 6 months later. I'll just reduce the duration of the NO_STUN effect to something more survivable. When I reloaded however, 5 out of 7 kobolds transformed. Indigofenix's suggested fix doesn't seem to help that. The problem appears to be that a kobold still contracts all the syndromes when he drinks. I can either reduce the duration of the transforms to something manageable, like a month or two or just remove them. With only a 1 month duration, its still a disadvantage, but not a horribly crippling one.

[milo christiansen]

Could you use DFHack to apply just one syndrome? It may require using a Lua powered reaction, but it should be possible.