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[SixOfSpades]

I just saw an article about a new indie game called "Banished." (Here's the link.)

It's not quite a ripoff of Dwarf Fortress, but the parallels are far too numerous to ignore.
"You're the nameless, faceless (but not blameless) overseer of your small group of villagers set in low-tech, medieval-ish era."
"The goal is simple: survive. They must gather the proper resources, build houses, grow food . . ."
"The learning curve is steep, and you will likely have many failures, but that first success once you get the hang of things feels awesome."
"There really isn't any technology progression, which is usually something common for the genre."
"Also worthy of note is that Banished, which is pretty complex, was all created by one guy, programmer Luke Hodorowicz."
And what's that I hear as the game music in the second half of the video? Is that a solo acoustic guitar??

But that's not what really gets me. I'm just wondering how the guy who wrote this article can say "It's this emphasis on simple survival that sets Banished apart from city-builder games that have preceded it," and then, for purposes of comparison, specifically mention Dwarf Fortress (not by name, but with a link to this site). I guess he obviously never actually played DF, or even spoke to anyone who had, presumably because he couldn't get past the lack of graphics.

To be fair, Banished does have its differences. There is no mention of any fantasy element (e.g., dwarves, goblins, necromancers), or digging (although there is what kinda looks like a quarry at 1:28 in the video), and jobs like putting up buildings can take in-game months to complete. And there are some things at which Banished is just plain better, like having realistic diseases. (Cholera that spreads through infected drinking water is way more fun than your skin rotting away because some guy killed an FB and didn't wipe his feet before coming back inside.) But as far as actual game design is concerned, Banished is more interesting than Dwarf Fortress in only one point: WHY your villagers are building this town. You're not sent out to establish a convenient trade location with the humans, or to erect a military outpoint to hold a strategic pass against the goblin hordes, or to found a mining colony to send precious ores back to the Mountainhome. No, in Banished, you're starting a new village because . . . you've been banished. You're a gang of filthy, trouble-making miscreants. Nobody wants you. Get out.

So! How would YOU rip off the ripoff? My idea: A variation of the zero-point embark. You've all been run out of town with nothing but the clothes on your backs, although you did manage to waylay a farmer and steal his axe, wagon, and the single draft animal pulling it. The dwarves may place as many skill ranks as they like . . . but only in Liar, Appraiser, Kicker, and Biter, they may have no other skills. Of course, if any of your dwarves display traits like "an ardent believer in order and tradition," or "truly enjoys helping others," or "is candid and sincere," or any of that crap, it's time to start over with a new Starting Seven.
You may trade with the elves & humans (if you can entice them to come) if you like, but the dwarven caravan has no interest in dealing with exiles for at least, oh, 10 years or so, and even then they won't listen to your trade requests: You'll buy what they see fit to bring you, and that's it. Of course, during that first 10 years, you're not obligated to protect that caravan, either, so if they get ambushed by goblins or whatever while they're going PAST your settlement, well . . .
Migrants? Of course the Mountainhome has more outcasts to purge, and why wouldn't they come to you? Word is that you've got some stuff, so they're coming to mooch off you.
Also: No jail cells, no sherrif, no captain of the guard, and all mandates must be ignored. (Not "deliberately disobeyed," just ignored.)
Most important of all, you can't just pick any old site on which to embark. Pick a civilization, find where their Mountainhome is on the world map, and you MUST embark within a week's travel time (your discretion on just how far that is) of that spot. You got kicked out without any food or drinks, remember?

[TheCoolSideofthePIllow]

Even DF isn't really unique in it's gameplay. Dungeon Keeper, Evil Genius, Settlers, etc were all fairly similar to DF. And that's just Fortress mode.

[Skuggen]

I've been trying to rid myself of the "It's like Dwarf Fortress, but with better graphics!" impression of Banished before getting it, since those thoughts always lead to disappointment (since the simple graphics are a requirement for DF's complexity).

I don't really care if a game steals ideas from other games, unless the creators then start complaining when others do it to them.

As for the ideas, a sort of 'backstory' picker could be cool; A way to explicitly say why you're trying to found this fort and what your starting relationship to the Mountainhomes is.

You could be a band of escaped criminals that are actually at war with your home civ at the beginning, or maybe you have some sort of obligation, so every time the trade caravan arrives it expects to be given a certain amount of [local commodity] for free, or the relationship suffers.

[Kumquat]

Meh.

It is closer to Stronghold minus the stronghold and all the warfare fluff than DF. DF fort mode is a walk through an alligator maze with disaster waiting behind every turn, Banished is walking a tightrope requiring careful balancing of a relatively small number of things. It has nowhere the constructed complexity. Most of the actual gameplay emerges from rather simple dynamics.

Don't slag the game just because of one dumb article writer or superficial similarities. Play the game first, then you can slag it for its actual (de)merits.

[smurfingtonthethird]

I don't think banished has either violent combat, insane contraptions and tantrum spirals. Sure, its hard, but its piddle on dwarf fortress's complexity. The dwarves have their own backstories, their own tastes, and everything is randomly generated. Dealing with their emotional shit is half the game. Plus banished doesn't have adventurer mode or legends, which are two great modes on their own, if a bit less finished then fortress mode.

[Propman]

Eh. Games like this are what broaden the "Fort-like" subgenera of roguelikes DF has been starting to influence, and really work best as training wheels for folk to plunge into before they dive into Dwarf Fortress proper. Besides the stripped-down mechanics, the fact that you're playing as above-ground hut dwelling humans as opposed to subterranean dwarves also sets it apart a bit.

All in all, I say the best thing we can get out of this is to make human houses have sloped, shingled rooves.

[Di]

So! How would YOU rip off the ripoff? My idea: A variation of the zero-point embark. You've all been run out of town with nothing but the clothes on your backs, although you did manage to waylay a farmer and steal his axe, wagon, and the single draft animal pulling it. The dwarves may place as many skill ranks as they like . . . but only in Liar, Appraiser, Kicker, and Biter, they may have no other skills. Of course, if any of your dwarves display traits like "an ardent believer in order and tradition," or "truly enjoys helping others," or "is candid and sincere," or any of that crap, it's time to start over with a new Starting Seven.
You may trade with the elves & humans (if you can entice them to come) if you like, but the dwarven caravan has no interest in dealing with exiles for at least, oh, 10 years or so, and even then they won't listen to your trade requests: You'll buy what they see fit to bring you, and that's it. Of course, during that first 10 years, you're not obligated to protect that caravan, either, so if they get ambushed by goblins or whatever while they're going PAST your settlement, well . . .
Migrants? Of course the Mountainhome has more outcasts to purge, and why wouldn't they come to you? Word is that you've got some stuff, so they're coming to mooch off you.
Also: No jail cells, no sherrif, no captain of the guard, and all mandates must be ignored. (Not "deliberately disobeyed," just ignored.)
Most important of all, you can't just pick any old site on which to embark. Pick a civilization, find where their Mountainhome is on the world map, and you MUST embark within a week's travel time (your discretion on just how far that is) of that spot. You got kicked out without any food or drinks, remember?

Eh, If you wanted a challenge thread you shouldn't have dwelt that much on how banished is trying to parasite on df popularity.
Also, I believe there's a whole community fort dedicated to roleplaying exiled criminals.

[WanderingKid]

From what I've seen of the game (I'll pick it up eventually) it's not even really trying to be a mimic.  It plays with some of the same topics, but those have been played with since the beginning of time, even board games.  Seems like the balances are much more finely tuned towards keeping you involved in prepping for the next crisis while finishing up solving the last one, but I wouldn't call it a rip off.  Hell, I'm not even sure 'inspired by' is the correct term here, though most fort games these days that aren't megatropolis SimCity inspirations are DF inspired in some way.  Even if that way is just from word of mouth and discussions they've seen in other forums.

Never understood why some of our community gets so... ired... at the idea that someone can do a fortress game worth playing and/or that they're always ripping off Toady if they do.  DF is a huge, deep, simulator.  Noone else is really going to attempt that depth.  If they can be inspired by certain mechanics of the game and make a worthwhile contribution to the genre, awesome.  Particularly if those games are training wheels to get them here.   

[Philii]

Anyway, I like DF.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you don't like the game, just don't play it.

[SixOfSpades]

Never understood why some of our community gets so... ired... at the idea that someone can do a fortress game worth playing and/or that they're always ripping off Toady if they do.

I wasn't irked at the game itself, so much as the article about it. I understand full well that there's only a very small amount of variation that can exist in city-building games with this general level of technology, so I don't blame Banished for that. But it just got under my skin that the write-up listed so many things that DF had already done, and then linked to DF, and then pretended that DF didn't exist.

[NAV]

The game obviously has a lot in common with dwarf fortress, but I don't think it is ripping anything off. I mean, there's way more difference between DF and Banished than there is between CoD, battlefield, and Halo. It's just another game in the same genre.

[Dwarfskeet]

It doesn't really play much like Dwarf Fortress other than you build stuff. I've put about 4-5 hours into Banished so far and I've had a ton of fun. It's another one of those indie projects that was built by one dude, he did all the music, art, programming what-have-you. You guys should give it a try, it's def super fun! Naturally I had to name my town Dunwich. NATURALLY.

[Matoro]

Never understood why some of our community gets so... ired... at the idea that someone can do a fortress game worth playing and/or that they're always ripping off Toady if they do.

I wasn't irked at the game itself, so much as the article about it. I understand full well that there's only a very small amount of variation that can exist in city-building games with this general level of technology, so I don't blame Banished for that. But it just got under my skin that the write-up listed so many things that DF had already done, and then linked to DF, and then pretended that DF didn't exist.

I felt similarly while reading the article. I don't say anything about the game, because I haven't tried it, but it's annoying how the article first mentions Dwarf Fortress and then proceeds to tell things how Banished is so unique by listing so many things DF has already done. It's more like a flaw in the article than in the game. DF:s Fortress or Adventure mode even aren't that unique, there's a lot of roguelikes like those. DF is unique because it is fantasy world generator and simulator.

[JoshBrickstien]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Never understood why some of our community gets so... ired... at the idea that someone can do a fortress game worth playing and/or that they're always ripping off Toady if they do.

I wasn't irked at the game itself, so much as the article about it. I understand full well that there's only a very small amount of variation that can exist in city-building games with this general level of technology, so I don't blame Banished for that. But it just got under my skin that the write-up listed so many things that DF had already done, and then linked to DF, and then pretended that DF didn't exist.

I felt similarly while reading the article. I don't say anything about the game, because I haven't tried it, but it's annoying how the article first mentions Dwarf Fortress and then proceeds to tell things how Banished is so unique by listing so many things DF has already done. It's more like a flaw in the article than in the game. DF:s Fortress or Adventure mode even aren't that unique, there's a lot of roguelikes like those. DF is unique because it is fantasy world generator and simulator.

I'd say the thing that makes DF unique is not that it's a fantasy world generator/simulator, but the sheer level of detail. I mean, the fact that combat cares about individual muscle and nervous tissue? That it tracks the blood from the creatures? That the creatures are more than just a sprite or a 3d model inside the "Livestock pen" building? That making steel requires not only carbon, but a calcifier, AND requires the intermediary step of Pig Iron? Yep. That's what makes it special. Banished can be a city builder. But nothing can beat DF's detail/complexity. I mean, I'm sure Banished doesn't require you to read 12 wiki pages just to be able to last a single year.

[Arowhun]

This doesn't look a thing like dwarf fortress.

The only big similarity I see is that it's a city building game, but that is not big enough of a similarity to be concerning.