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[Taricus]

Not the oly one who finds it wasteful. Especially with those bloody orc warriors and their shields. Heck Don't even both with it in the early game since you practically need every shield you can get (And you don't have as many axes to really be effective in shield destruction too.)

[Greenbane]

I just took a contract which had me fighting thirty human soldiers.
I think the team has pretty well fixed the 'easy lategame' issue.

Twice I've fought over 20 wiedergangers (some armoured, some not) for single-skull contracts. It was manageable and rather fun, but a bit much for a supposedly "easy" job and 600 crowns.

I suppose lategame balancing is tricky. In my experience it seems to have come way in advance of me having any kind of lategame gear. I'm still using what amounts to tier 2 weapons and armour, and a core of mercs is level 6, while others are 3-4 at best. And I don't think I've even seen true lategame enemy compositions (other than the goblin contingent I just mentioned, which perhaps only lacked a Shaman), like massed Orc Warriors or Ancient Honor Guards supported by Legionnaires. But I'm still falling behind the curve and having trouble with supposedly mid-range (two-skull) contracts.

I just took a contract which had me fighting thirty human soldiers.
I think the team has pretty well fixed the 'easy lategame' issue.

My biggest worry is that the game is very geared towards very specific weapons in the late game. That even though you get late game versions of some weapons, that you are better off ignoring them and building a team around say... 3 weapons, maybe 4.

But I haven't seen the game played much outside Veteran.

But that is mostly because late game enemies are kind of very similar. Super heavily armored dudes who are either immune to piercing damage (Sucks to be you Dagger users!) or with tons of HP (Sucks to be you Dagger users!) and often really great shields.

I just haven't wrapped my head around the game's balance yet.

Flails, for example, I understand that they ignore shields... Which is great early game, but later on I question how useful it is when enemies have 100 armor helmets. Versus just using an Axe to take down the shield.

Daggers are clearly secondary weapons, as they have been in real history. They might be good in a pinch, to finish off a wounded enemy, but it's the right design choice that you can't expect them to be good primary damage dealers at any point past the early game.

Weapon balance seems to be largely okay to me, though perhaps crossbows need a buff relative to normal bows, which have greater range and rate of fire, same damage and only a pseudo-minor difference in performance versus armour.

Flails are alright, I feel. Taking down a shield with an axe is more helpful if you have supporting brothers engaging the same target, but flails allow more independence and deal damage throughout the fight due to their shield bypass.

[Tack]

I would argue in favor of crossbows, but after trying to shoot orc warriors with them I might even agree. It's not enough piercing to injure through the armor, and not enough armor damage to take a noticeable chunk off.
They do win in mobility though.. sorta.

[Neonivek]

Daggers are clearly secondary weapons, as they have been in real history. They might be good in a pinch, to finish off a wounded enemy, but it's the right design choice that you can't expect them to be good primary damage dealers at any point past the early game.

BOO! You can't do it like that when it has a clear specialty that is geared towards using it as a primary weapon.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you do something like that then the specialty should be geared more towards making that sort of play viable (as in, having it as a secondary weapon). For example if the game had a "Unarmed" Specialty, lets pretend, but didn't want to give your fists superior damage... Then the specialty should reflect that such as allowing a follow up punch when using one handed weapons in both hands.

Ok so my fears are... 100% justified apparently.

(Also no... in real history they had a bit more of an expansive use. Such as... Being your shield...)

you can't expect them to be good primary damage dealers at any point past the early game

The POINT of the Daggers in this game is that they ignore armor. They do a bit less damage but that is because in the right hands they could be quite powerful. (They also can hit very often, which has some advantages)

Now, some enemies are outright immune to this... and others have HP way too high to rely on.
-Actually the enemies who are immune seem to almost be designed entirely around just outright eliminating 50% of the weapons from use in the late game.

And Daggers go up to Tier 3. As in even in the late game you still get daggers, legendary daggers, and racial daggers.

---

But to give an example... If Daggers were meant to be a secondary weapon that you are meant to switch to in very specific situations.

Then the specialty would function something along the lines of: "You may use the dagger from the backpack as if it was equipped" along with the bonuses. Something along those lines. Enhancing its secondary role without conflating primary and secondary.

Or if it is meant to be switched back and forth, it would have a stronger effect. Like adding poison while diminishing switching penalties.

I still do think it is meant to be a primary weapon in this game.

[Greenbane]

That's just my experience. I didn't know there were tier 3 daggers. Haven't seen any yet, in shops or otherwise.

But still, at least as far as I know, they don't deal that much damage and only ignore armour through a fatigue-expensive skill which has a malus to hit. And at least according to the wiki, said skill can't critically hit. You'd need to really specialize to make daggers a viable primary weapon, and I'm not sure it's as efficient as other weapons.

The perk which does what you propose is Quick Hands: it allows a free item swap per turn.

[Neonivek]

The Tier Three Daggers aren't called Daggers IIRC and were just recently added (along with Tier Three Crossbows)

I think they are called Arming Swords or something... maybe a Rondel.

[Greenbane]

Arming Swords are the tier 3 one-handed swords, right before Noble Swords. It doesn't seem like most weapons have four tiers, though.

Also, I found this interesting bit of advice regarding the evolution of the mercenary company throughout the game. It's old advice, from 2015, but I would assume it still applies.

*As you work towards the endgame, don't forget to phase out your starting recruits with professional combatants. Yes, you might be very fond of that guy that you hired before the very first tutorial quest, and he's now 11 level, but the thing is, a 5 level Sellsword will wipe the floor with two 11 level Farmhands without breaking a sweat. You need real soldiers. Hire Sellswords to fill out your shieldwall and skirmisher roles, Hedgeknights for linebreakers, Nobles for captains, Hunters for snipers. I frequently read on the forums about someone's "top level warband with good gear" being wiped out by puny orc warrior patrols. That's because a bunch of leveled ratcatchers and caravan hands is not "top level".

I've been absolutely not doing that, deeming advanced recruits too expensive (perhaps they are, a bit) after lukewarm experiences with more expensive yet still rather cheap mercs.

It won't be easy, but I suppose that's the way to go if the endgame consists of being routinely outnumbered by really tough enemies.

[Taricus]

Especially with the potential system, farmhands and the like can turn out amazing for their cost. Nothing like a pair of them with 3 star ranged skill.

[Neonivek]

Ehh sorry about the overreaction people.

I just get rather passionate, especially with games I actually have a lot of respect for.

Nothing like a pair of them with 3 star ranged skill.

That, often doesn't go too well for you.

[Majestic7]

My number #1 rub with the game so far: deadlines for ambitions are not told. It would be nice to get some idea about the timeframe you have to fullfill the ambition.

[Neonivek]

My number #1 rub with the game so far: deadlines for ambitions are not told. It would be nice to get some idea about the timeframe you have to fullfill the ambition.

Ohh they are, you have to highlight them.

Mind you... they are either infinite or 20 days. Never seen it be anything else (and the only times it has been infinite is when it was reputation building)

[ThtblovesDF]

From the patch notes:

Changed wardogs to no longer come with a fatigue penalty for the handler.

: D

Full Patch Notes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Beta Update 0.9.0.21
Community Announcements - rapsdjff

Let's start the week off with another update to the beta branch of Battle Brothers - lots of bugfixes and some balancing changes in this one.

Please continue to report any issues in the appropriate forum following the instructions there - do not post them as comments here, they'd only get buried and lost, and may miss important information.

Changelog for 0.9.0.21
Changed hit chance penalty for ranged attacks against targets with a blocked line of fire to 75%, up from 50%. This way, protecting vulnerable characters with good positioning is rewarded more, and a more viable tactic against range-heavy opponents, such as goblins.
Changed Bandit Poachers to no longer have the Bullseye perk.
Changed wardogs to no longer come with a fatigue penalty for the handler.
Changed Nachzehrers that have devoured a character to no longer be able to retreat from combat.
Changed payment for 'Escort Envoy' contract to be higher.
Changed some time limits for ambitions to give more leeway.

Fixed potential crash during combat.
Fixed battle sites counting towards the 'Discover Locations' ambition.
Fixed dead temporary allies under the player's command showing up in the company's obituary.
Fixed ships being attackable when close to the shore.
Fixed issue with destroying a necropolis.
Fixed rare issue with characters not rising from the dead properly.
Fixed issue with locations protected by noble troops in 'Privateering' contract.
Fixed settlements not updating relations properly when changing sides in 'Privateering' contract.
Fixed issues with 'Named Item' and 'Named Item Set' ambitions.
Fixed issues with 'Raze Location' contract.
Fixed issue with 'Confront Warlord' contract.
Fixed issue with 'Marauding Greenskins' contract.
Fixed issue with settlement defense contracts when settlements are already close to being destroyed.
Fixed issue with game not continuing properly sometimes when characters die right before their turn starts.
Fixed 'Drunk' and 'Hangover' status effects sometimes staying for longer than intended.
Fixed issue with introductory contract sometimes having too great a distance between towns.
Fixed issue with escorted caravans sometimes being destroyed without the player getting a chance to defend them.
Fixed Greenskin Catapult being subject to injuries.
Fixed characters not showing up in the company's obituary when struck down without being killed, and the player retreats from battle, leaving them to die.
Fixed issue with unlocking 'Walking Statue' achievement.
Fixed issue with unlocking 'Bling Bling' and 'Tricked Out' achievements.
Fixed character background stories missing names in rare cases.
Fixed issue with AI that is neutral to the player attacking a caravan escorted by the player.
Fixed three-way battles something missing the third party.
Fixed retirement after successfully beating the undead scourge not working.
Fixed items in bags not counting towards retirement score.
Fixed some other minor issues.

[Neonivek]

So why are expensive people you hire bad so often?

I thought they were supposed to be good.

*Checks Wiki*

OHHH nevermind... the price you pay for them will often not pay off in the slightest... the whole "A level 2 will beat a level 11" is fiction

*Checks more*

OHHH... sometimes it IS a total rip off in disguise.

Ok I think either the Wiki is out of date... but given that these 4000 gold 48 upkeep soldiers are so often outdone by farmers... I am thinking it is accurate.

Edit: YEP out of date... but oddly enough... In a way even more accurate.

In all fairness a HUUUGE part of their price is their Equipment which is mildly fair priced... And their starting level (which is ridiculously overpriced)

---

Also I am really surprised there is no legit archer. Only poachers and hunters.

[Majestic7]

I'm still sort of missing support characters in the style of Mount & Blade, having a dedicated doctor in the company etc. You could keep him mainly in the reserve but in a pinch need him to fight.

[Man of Paper]

Something similar to how you could get guys who filled specific roles in Pirates!. I think that'd be pretty cool.