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[Neonivek]

Mind you, it is funny when you do get a Swordmaster and he has like 69 swordmenship and you are like "Awesome!" and then you check the stamina and it is like less than 60

Well, you were kinda warned about that in the description- the guy's old enough to be some other mercs' dad.

I find it funny because it is like he is extorting me for money. "Ohhh, sorry you hired me! Give me money!"

Me: "Dang it! I knew I should have had a mandatory physical test"

[Greenbane]

A bit less than 60 fatigue while wearing high-end armour and a big, fancy greatsword isn't so bad.

And doesn't he come with free level ups to boot?

Doesn't seem unreasonable, overall.

[Taricus]

It's 60 fatigue base, and that's before the old trait is given to them by event.

[Neonivek]

It's 60 fatigue base, and that's before the old trait is given to them by event.

Yeah

Which for almost anyone is almost a death sentence for their usefulness (I think... Archers can get away with it)

[Taricus]

Archers can't get away with it. Not without iron lungs and weapon mastery.

[Greenbane]

My mistake. That is low, particularly once you do have him put on all the heavy gear.

So first encounter with Orc Warriors (4, plus 6 or so Young). They're veritable tanks: when they were first approaching, one of my guys managed to land a crossbow bolt on one's armour and it might as well had plinked off. Took off about 8% of its durability. I managed to land a lot of blows past their heavy shields, but they're huge (barely discernibly) green sponges. You can technically surround them and land near-certain hits, but a) I didn't have enough men, obviously, and b) they can STILL take a metric ton of punishment before going down.

I ended up losing four good men, levels between 4 and 6, not due to any BS roll but rather the sheer attrition of having to trade blows with these beasts for an extended period of time, until they finally give. One guy actually survived, but might as well have died considering the broken knee has crippled him for combat service. Another likely did die to a BS roll: clear shot from an archer buddy, guy in question was behind the orc and the arrow hit him instead. Handed the poor fellow to the greenskin on a silver platter.

I feel I have to reload and reconsider this contract. Losing four experienced fighters (not to mention their expensive armour) is just too much of a setback at this stage. I've only done so twice on this playthrough, after the Berserker massacre I described earlier, and the hopeless goblin situation I mentioned more recently.

Perhaps I had too many piercing weapons (4 spearmen, 2 archers, 1 crossbowman and 2 pikemen) and should've doubled down on bashing weapons like maces and flails instead, to deal with all that armour. I don't know. Could Orc Warriors even be reliably stunned, considering their big helmets? The pikes weren't all that ineffective, and the spears were good against the Young. The other guys were two javelin throwers with backup axe or sword, and I also had two reach-2 two-handed axemen.

Before I cry "NERF!", and boy do I feel the urge to, any tips on fighting these monsters? It feels increasingly like the mid-late game is going to be all about not getting hit, investing heavily on melee defense so mercs can weather the onslaught of superior enemies with impossible resilience. That, and of course supposedly getting "professionals". I'm still trying to figure out whether that's a real, viable strategy or something else that's fallen out of balance.

[Neonivek]

To my knowledge stun ignores armor... but I could be wrong.

[Greenbane]

Oh, it seems I was lucky last time around. Redid the battle with somewhat more maces and flails and it turns out my spearwalls were far less effective than last time. My guys were in melee sooner than anticipated, and again the Warriors' ludicrous tank armour proved nigh-unassailable. Only this time they were even more unstoppable. The maces and flails didn't make any noticeable difference beyond a couple of isolated stuns that didn't contribute much. Many of my guys were exhausted before long, some even wavering.

And I thought taking 8% off a Warrior's armour was a bad crossbow hit, but actually that was a good one. I saw hits as weak as half that.

Supposedly strong polearm (and that 2-reach big axe) hits which would've taken off half or at the very least a third of the health of a human, with wounding consequences, did half as much damage to a Warrior. If they hit past the shield. Sure, they could get wounds as well, sometimes, but that didn't put a dent on their effectiveness. There's just something wrong with the 2-reach axe taking three whole dedicated shield bashes to bring down a Warrior's heavy shield. That's three whole turns a merc is tied down trying to make a Warrior just a little more vulnerable while its friends run amok.

I'd say it takes three mercs three turns of dedicated pounding to bring down a single Warrior, at least in my current situation with tier 2 gear and level 6 people at best. It's just untenable with 12 mercs, given that assumes literally everyone would be trying to keep the 4 Warriors under control, and while the 5-6 (can't recall) Young are more manageable, they can certainly not be left unattended.

Again, this is a two-skull contract, and this time around the battle resulted in a total company wipe.

[Tack]

Oh, warriors are immune to stun btw. Young are still easy though.

Also only young have the charge. Warriors and warlords use the shove instead.

[Taricus]

Which can be far, far worse when you have archers or pikemen right behind your line.

Spears are... basically they're useless in the late game. Not enough damage to keep up. And there is one weapon that wreaks havoc on orc warriors: The hammer (Two handed being better for the obvious reasons). Those things chew through armour like it's nothing, and I've seen a two-handed hammer kill an unarmoured orc berserker in one hit. MAce are also good, if by virtue of the fatigue damage they inflict on every hit which will slow how many attacks the orc warriors get, and are pretty decent against the armour to boot.

Mind you, orc warriors are VERY much late game foes. Don't even try going up against them unless you've got a full line level 10-11 mercs.

[Tack]

Well then maybe the skulls on the contracts is unbalanced.

[ThtblovesDF]

Orc Warriors can't be stunned, it says so if you have a stun-skill and aim at them, same for pushing or pulling.

A good Spearwall will work them, especially with the new mastery perks so you don't fatigue yourself to death... you just have to hit every single spear-jab, always. It helps if you just sit on high ground, since orcs let you pick your battlegrounds quite nicly.

I found it useful to let the young-orcs surive for a bit until they are all close to each other and then kill them to make the warriors rout - and as always, a dog thrown in can give you a break from the punishment they deliver. Poor Doggy.

The 2h hammer lacks the "break armor" skill of the military hammer and I found axes just plainly to do more damage (considering you have to maul armor and health away afterall).

[Tack]

Yeah I found the 'break armor' skill to be the only reliable way of getting orcs to shed their shells, so 1h beats 2h in my books as well.

More of a fan of swords than axes, though, for versatility's sake. Makes it easier to mow down selective groups of things.

[Taricus]

To be fair, it doesn't need the break armour skill, it just does that much damage that it shreds their armour like no tomorrow. Add in that you can hit multiple orcs in the attack. Two handed swords are also good against orcs due to the raw damage output and AOE attacks.

[Greenbane]

Spears are... basically they're useless in the late game. Not enough damage to keep up. And there is one weapon that wreaks havoc on orc warriors: The hammer (Two handed being better for the obvious reasons). Those things chew through armour like it's nothing, and I've seen a two-handed hammer kill an unarmoured orc berserker in one hit. MAce are also good, if by virtue of the fatigue damage they inflict on every hit which will slow how many attacks the orc warriors get, and are pretty decent against the armour to boot.

I still find spears useful in general, given they're either a way to more or less herd enemies and delay their advance, if they choose to avoid the spearwall, or a free source of damage if they decide to charge in anyway. It's more effective against some enemies than others, but all free damage is welcome. It's all about the spearman's skill to keep the wall up, however.

For really close combat, I suppose one could take a page from the Spartan book and carry a backup sword if the spear loses its efficiency once the wall is penetrated. But fatigue is an ever-present problem.

Mind you, orc warriors are VERY much late game foes. Don't even try going up against them unless you've got a full line level 10-11 mercs.

Well then maybe the skulls on the contracts is unbalanced.

There is something wrong with the skulls, or simply the game's estimation of my strength, if it's pushing me into the late game while I still have mid-range gear and mercenaries. I've been fighting near constantly, with mostly victorious results (and minimal save reloading), only resting to allow the more serious injuries to heal, so it's not like I've been wasting time.

I would stay away from things like Warriors and Berserkers if I could, but contracts don't tend to tell you much other than the general flavour of the opposition, if that. I can more or less handle Orc Young, Goblin Skirmishers and Goblin Ambushers, which is why I don't automatically turn down greenskin contracts.

Plus, if I start shunning two-skull contracts (the most common type at this point) because they might be too tough, the company won't be able to sustain itself. I generally only have crowns for maintenance and minor upgrades, and I'm trying to save up to start hiring high-end mercs to see if I can catch up with the curve.