Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4

Author Topic: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive  (Read 9250 times)

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2014, 07:36:00 pm »

Nice advice, thanks.  The Admirals "simulated" the battle a couple of times and kiting looks like the best strategy.  Good ship advice too, will see what I can do.
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2014, 07:38:23 pm »

That's all good advice.

In combat there are 4 settings, neutral (stationary ships unless ordered to move by you), Stand off (stays at or near the max range of the selected weapon which is shown by the star next to it) Pursuit (selected Pursuit ships try to stay behind targetted ships, which tends to result in the target's engines being exploded first) and the last one is Close in or something like that (this will cause your ships to move close to the targetted ship, and perform maneuvors that are different for every race)

For missile boats, you want to make sure the missiles are starred, then set the ship to Stand off (or neutral if you want to steer them, generally advised to be the opposite direction of the pursuing target if you are using missile boats)

For other weapons like mass drivers, set your ships to close in if the enemy fleet is attacking yours, or pursuit if they beeline to somewhere else.

The main use of Roll and Spin is to turn less damaged sides of your ship towards incoming fire. A good example would be when missiles are incoming. Use Roll a second before the volley hits to spread the damage across other sides of the ship. The AI doesn't use this tactic so it's slightly more vulnerable to missile kiting than you.

In the start missile boats are easily the most powerful weapon assuming you use the kiting tactic. Mass driver cruisers will beat them up close if they catch them. The AI will quickly adapt to counter missile fleets though and you will have to try other things. The power of missile boats also is a reason why lacking research accessibility to some kind of point defense is considered very poor luck on the chat channel.

Energy weapons are good because they greatly extend the range a ship can travel. Beamers are one of my favorite early game weapons, because they are extremely good against drones and purple or greater beamers can work as weak point defense against missiles. They can be an early counter to AI missile boats as the beamers zap enough missiles for the beamer cruiser to catch the missile boats before your ships are crippled. Mass driver ships will do too much damage for beamers to compete with though, so those would be the counter to beamers.

When targeting enemy ships, you can target individual turrets and disarm enemy ships. This can be useful, especially if it uses big guns.

What Jack said about the starting designs is true; they are absolutely terrible in comparison to what you can make. Prototype some new ships as soon as you can; even if they have the exact same weapon loadout you can make them travel two or three turns farther just by placing appropriate modules in them.

When defending, keep your ships near your colony. Planetary missiles are very strong in the early game.

When attacking a colony, you'll want to decide if you want to farm that colony for salvage (and slaves as Zuul). If farming you can send a sweeping fleet, made up of ship killing ships, and a second fleet made up of boarding ships. After the sweeper fleet clears the system, you use the farming fleet in combat to capture any ships and stations remaining. Boarded ships and stations tend to give you salvage research.

If you want to destroy the colony, use a sweeper fleet and an assault shuttle carrier fleet. Sweep it clear of ships, then send in the assault shuttle carriers. Park them outside the range of planetary missiles and launch the assault shuttles to bomb the planet. Planetary missiles can't lock onto shuttles, though drones and ships can shoot them down.

What was said by Jack about Colony stimulus is very valid. It's difficult to get those colonies back into your empire when you want, requiring research and diplomatic efforts. The civilian colonies will also be helpless against enemy attacks as well. Trade stimulus is useful, but colony stimulus is much less so. However, if you want to skew your government type towards the right, Colony stimulus will help do that.

If you want to be diplomatic with the AI, you will want to be the same type of government.

The AI likes to make demands. When you are already at war it's nonsensical so just deny them. I don't know if accepting is beneficial to the relationship or not when not at war.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 07:55:23 pm by Duuvian »
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2014, 10:17:22 pm »

Also more great advice!  Seriously, this kind of nuts and bolts stuff is quite hard to find, we'll at least on YouTube.  Dummy question incoming:  what does left, middle and right clicking do to enemy ships in combat?  I'm not entirely clear how targeting and attacking work.
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

C-SH4M4N

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2014, 11:08:41 pm »

Also more great advice!  Seriously, this kind of nuts and bolts stuff is quite hard to find, we'll at least on YouTube.  Dummy question incoming:  what does left, middle and right clicking do to enemy ships in combat?  I'm not entirely clear how targeting and attacking work.


Here you go.
Logged

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2014, 11:11:51 pm »

Yay!
...
In the first game, how do you zoom onto your target in the combat?
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2014, 03:59:58 am »

Here you go.

Great!  Kind of a strange design decision which accounts for my confusion, left clicking to target enemy ships seems a bit counterintuitive.  But this means I can stop right and left clicking everywhere just to make sure, hehe.
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

C-SH4M4N

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2014, 06:52:22 am »

Yay!
...
In the first game, how do you zoom onto your target in the combat?
Double left-click, if memory serves.
Logged

JackOSpades

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lurker Supreme
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2014, 01:04:31 pm »

Yay!
...
In the first game, how do you zoom onto your target in the combat?
Double left-click, if memory serves.


nope middle mouse click or I believe the keyboard shortcut is F, you should be able to find that out for sure in the options menu.

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2014, 08:11:05 pm »

TURN 13

OK so my attempt to complete Dark Souls before the next one drops just failed spectacularly, so I thought this cannot go any worse.

Before the Sol Force fleet arrives, Admiral JackOSpades orders the crew of all vessels to simulate the encounter in their VR stations.  The outcome is not encouraging.


He further orders them to study the Battle of Klendathu and takes strategy lessons from resident advisors and runs the sims a few more times.

The strategists finally figure out that though we have two fleets in the vicinity, the battle plays out as two seperate encounters ???.  The construction fleet is super weak, and the colony fleet is not so bad.  Furthermore, and this could not be made more obscure, you can actually assign specific fleets to each encounter, so the colony fleet was assigned to handle "both" encounters... despite only facing a single enemy fleet?  The Admiral didn't really understand the logic behind this, but was not in the mood for questioning the archaic rules of space naval combat, steeped in tradition as they are.  So Imperator GentlemanRaptor took a back seat while Imperator JackOSpades kicked ass....


After kiting for the whole battle, the Horde closes in to demolish the straggler.



Victory!  The first encounter gave us enough time to take out the aggressive ships, and the second one let us mop up the feeble ones.  No losses.  Human Survey fleet wiped out my Lord.

The citizens were asking for more freedom again.  Their request was denied politely.



Tribute station research completed.  Where should we build these things and what do they do?  The construction fleet might be excited to have something to do.  If anyone wants to name their fleets, lemme know.  Otherwise I'll give them names sometime.
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

JackOSpades

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lurker Supreme
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2014, 01:21:46 pm »


don't know about Fleets but if you'd like to name those missile ship I suggested Spade's Kites I'd find that mildly amusing :P

I'd also like to command a fleet of them if my Admiral Ability Isn't better used elsewhere.

C-SH4M4N

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2014, 11:17:37 am »

A week without updates or battles???

The Zuul Horde is displeased ... and mildly annoyed bored.
"ENEMIES!!! WE NEED ENEMIES..."

Also, MEEEEETAL BOXXXXXEEEESSSS!!!!
Logged

hermes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2014, 11:14:24 am »

TURNS 14 to 17

Babies eat gaming time, just for the record.  That and watching Persona 4 playthroughs has cut into my time.  The expansion continues...

That diplomatic request from earlier, turns out the civilians had somehow already colonized Talos 1, and were asking for trade, like it said.  Shouldn't have been so hasty there, since the trade would be nice.  Erk.  Also turns out the Tribute Station research went over budget.  Erk.


Silly Zuul scientists.  Need to learn how to do real !Science!.



Finally the Empire can open proper diplomatic relations in the galaxy.

The colonization fleet, now Spade's Kites, established a new colony at Talos 3...



I'm feeling good about this expansion, but worried that the meatsacks will come back later to bother us.  I think the loss of their scouting fleet should give us some breathing room though.  Besides, our red-carpet greeting should be ready for them by the time they return...


Here is the Tribute Station to-be-built in orbit around Tiber Septim.  I imagine the inside is like the diplomatic station in Battlestar Galactica with the diplomat just waiting for people to turn up, except they have whips and racks and stuff.  Either that or it's a Bay12 Space Casino.

Since the kiting strategy worked so well, I prototyped the Horde's greatest new weapon... the Minecart Shotgun!


The real build times should be shorter as I jiggled around finances afterwards.

It features as many missile turrets as possible and green beamers for (poxy) Proximity Defense, and two caravans for extra range.  I was wincing internally the whole time I was designing though because I know I goofed somewhere.  Furthermore, with the completion of Tribute Station tech, we're moving into military tech with Grappling Hooks (or whatever they are called).  The station and the prototype have dented finances for a few turns, but things look OK.  I think.  After grappling, I was thinking about Disruptors and then creating cheap/disposible assault craft to keep enemies at arms length while the missile boats stay back and in safety.
Logged
We can only guess at the longing of the creator. Someone who would need to create one such as you. - A Computer
I've been working on this type of thing...

Duuvian

  • Bay Watcher
  • Internet ≠ Real Life
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2014, 08:46:52 pm »

I remembered another reason to have as much in savings you can. Have you tried boosting research yet? It WILL fail and cost you research time unless you only move the slider the barest minimum you can to the right.

By only being able to boost by that tiny amount, it makes a big difference what your government savings are. This is because the slider's movement is a percentage of your savings. That means that with higher savings, that little 1% you can sort of safely boost the research by is more and more as your savings grows.

I say sort of safely because even by only doing the smallest movement of the slider you risk a failure and loss of research progress. Somehow your scientists manage to explode themselves while researching non explosive things while using boost.

Speaking of boosting explosive things, there are some things you should never boost. One is Antimatter research. It will explode a whole planet, not just wipe out the current colony. Another is certain Artificial Intelligence researches. Boosting one of those will cause an AI rebellion. There may be others that backfire when boosted, but I can't recall them.

Overall though, boosting is a REALLY good idea once your saving is high. It will allow you to keep your slider on savings rather than research while continuing research though boosts. Occasionally it fails but it can reduce researches that take 30 turns to 4 turns without having to move the slider from savings. If you were to move the slider more towards research you could make that research in one day with boost.
Logged
FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

JackOSpades

  • Bay Watcher
  • Lurker Supreme
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2014, 06:09:31 am »

Those 'other' things would be anything in the Biology tree but again Zuul, Zuul are immune to Bio weapons due to BEING bio weapons themselves so a plague outbreak would be mostly beneficial except Zuul shouldn't normally be able to research any of them.
something about finding non-sentient bioweapons to be laughably inferior or some such.

and What do you mean Zuul need to learn how to do real !!Science!!? Zuul preform the best !!Science!! with really hot pokers even so you can really hear the flesh sizzle, makes those !!on fire!! tags seem somehow inadequate.
it's just occasionally the subject doesn't actually Know the information your trying to extract and that takes time (and considerable amounts of clean up) to figure out... :P

if your looking into close range ships than armor and -boarding pods- are what you want for the job (hopefully they've fixed the bugs with pods and drones by now.)
disruptor torpedoes sound good in theory but they are pretty poor in practice, plasma or even photon torps would be better because they actually do damage.

Quote
It features as many missile turrets as possible and green beamers for (poxy) Proximity Defense, and two caravans for extra range.  I was wincing internally the whole time I was designing though because I know I goofed somewhere.
I see it, it's the reactor boost which should be another caravan, shouldn't need the extra energy from the boost on a ship with so few energy weapons. In fact you are only using 5 out of an available 65 energy as is, more than what you will ever need. not a big deal but you'll lose some range (endurance of 1 turn vs 2) and so will likely need an extra supply ship or two for each fleet  :-\
welp nothing for it now but it's something to fix next time they need to be redesigned (for upgraded armor or to add actual Point defense.)

same three caravan design should be used for other ships which mount ballistics as their main armament as well if only to squeeze as much endurance out of them as possible.
energy weapons grant more flexibility so plasma cannons might be something to look into for close combat rather than Mass drivers
but seriously boarding pods are Zuul's go to strategy for ship to ship combat, it's the whole Zuul philosophy of turning an enemies tech against them applied literally. (plus you get a nice bonus to capturing tech for doing so)

C-SH4M4N

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Sword of the Stars II - Let's survive
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 02:06:20 pm »

Why do I look at the game interfaces and it makes me cringe?
Feels too obtuse and complicated ...

So, now we have ships called Shotguns? Cool, then we can be "riding shotgun!"
#IncrediblyLamePun
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4