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[Doktoro Reichard]

Well, just need to get this right off the ol'beard... but there has to be some sort of (semi-realistic) conditions that, at most, prevent a player's fortress from developing.

As I've thought about it for some time, here is my current idea for an unembarkable location:

- The whole region is made of gem tiles. No soil, no stone, just gems. (At least until the magma sea)
- There is no water and no mud as well.
- There is no vegetation (trees, shrubs and grass) present in the map.

Why I think it is the hardest embark ever? First, there are no building materials. You can't make beds, doors, traps, barrels... anything other than gem windows or cutting rough gems. There are no food sources present on the map, unless one of two happen: either you have an elite hunting team and the roamers that enable the hunters' work (also, bolts would run scarse) or you bring along some egg-layers... which also means that, due to the nonexistence of building materials, nest boxes would also have to be brought at start.

Water, despite not being essential, it's needed for wounded dwarves not to die from dehydration. It would, in this setup, be needed to make obsidian which would be the only building material. Also, if water doesn't exist, there also can't exist mud.

Everything combined, smelting the sieger's armor seems like a good idea doesn't it? Well... unless someone had the audacity to bring a magma-safe building block for the magma-stuff, that plan remains frozen.

So, turning to the only thing that can save this fort: gems. Oh, and Trading. But here's the deal... most gems are pretty worthless even when cut. The only big value gems get are when encrusted, and as there aren't any crafts that are possible to be made voluntarily, this idea is put off for a while. So, a fortress would need to churn as many gems as possible in the first year just to purchase essential commodities from the caravans. So, more picks would need to be brought, alongside with enough material to make jeweler's stations and the trade depot.

This is all true until you reach the adamantine spire, where it could be used to make the magma-stuff buildings. However, a lot of fun stuff could happen in the meanwhile and after, which would endanger the fortress yet another time.

All in all, I think this fortress has a tonne of stuff against it ever becoming a viable place. So, this would be one heck of a !!FUN!! game.

Now that I have written this, what are your two cents on this?

[Godlysockpuppet]

The hardest embark? Easy. Evil region where it rains magma. It happens, and you lose almost instantly 99% of the time. I got one once, but I don't have a save of it as ot was near when the latest release came out (summer before last). So yeah

[Doktoro Reichard]

The hardest embark? Easy. Evil region where it rains magma. It happens, and you lose almost instantly 99% of the time. I got one once, but I don't have a save of it as ot was near when the latest release came out (summer before last). So yeah

You only would lose if magma rained at the time you were aboveground. And as the first thing anyone does is dig into the earth, it doesn't seem like that much of a death sentence.

[than402]

plus,magma would take care of many surface threats.

[Berossus]

Hardest embark ever?

Hm, either the entire map is lava, down to the lava sea which is of course made of lava.
Or space.
No air, no ground, nothing. Not even hell.

[Doktoro Reichard]

Hardest embark ever?

Hm, either the entire map is lava, down to the lava sea which is of course made of lava.
Or space.
No air, no ground, nothing. Not even hell.

Ground is needed to embark. Those embarks would be impossible. They wouldn't be hard, but impossible.

[Henny]

Embarking on an ocean.

Now that I have written this, what are your two cents on this?

No water, no obsidian...

Let's see... I'd get a bunch of magma-safe stone, sand bags, logs, and a massive amount of plump helmets, as well as a stupid amount of poultry and dogs. With bones, ammo for crossbows could be replenishable.

The bottleneck I see is with alcohol. Are there any honey bee hives on the map? That could be the difference.

[Broken]

I once got an embark with instakilling rain (it caused a bleeding syndrome). Everybody died, except one miner, who survived alone mining to the caverns, gathering plants to brew and hunting things for food. The poor guy finally was killed by a FB (The fifth than he fought against)

[Larix]

Without vegetation and water, the crucial problem will be drink. Bees can provide for about fifteen dwarfs at most; drinks might just barely work out with imports - don't just buy every drink every caravan brings (enough for maybe sixty beards), buy all the brewable plants as well.

If there's any wildlife at all present, hunters will be self-sufficient via bone bolts/crossbows and can bring in some leather and bone for basic non-rottable "clothing" (stick folks in squads and give them leather armours, leather boots and bone leggings/helmets/gauntlets). Food is not likely to be a big problem; just cook the seeds from the imported plants you brew.

Trade should not be a problem; large amounts of gems, even the lower-value ones, can buy a lot of stuff, and if you butcher your wagon-pulling animals and craft their skulls and horn, you'll have enough junk to encrust.

I don't think this embark would be unreasonably hard, it'd just be much more dependent on an optimised embark loadout and heavy trade than usual. And it would kill all wounded.

[Godlysockpuppet]

The hardest embark? Easy. Evil region where it rains magma. It happens, and you lose almost instantly 99% of the time. I got one once, but I don't have a save of it as ot was near when the latest release came out (summer before last). So yeah

You only would lose if magma rained at the time you were aboveground. And as the first thing anyone does is dig into the earth, it doesn't seem like that much of a death sentence.

It usually rains within the first few minutes of embark. I wish you luck if you think this is at all possible.

[BoredVirulence]

The hardest embark? Easy. Evil region where it rains magma. It happens, and you lose almost instantly 99% of the time. I got one once, but I don't have a save of it as ot was near when the latest release came out (summer before last). So yeah

You only would lose if magma rained at the time you were aboveground. And as the first thing anyone does is dig into the earth, it doesn't seem like that much of a death sentence.

It usually rains within the first few minutes of embark. I wish you luck if you think this is at all possible.

Raining magma would be no worse than many of the insta-death rain syndromes we already have. I argue that it would actually be kinder, some may survive with bleeding and losing their fat reserves, many insta-death syndromes I've met involve nearly instant necrosis of every uncovered body part, or bleeding so severe from every uncovered body part that dwarves bleed out in mere ticks. I've yet to find a syndrome from rain that was severe but not instantly lethal, these contrast lovely with the syndromes that make my dwarves temporarily drowsy...

Also, I have once gotten all 100 dwarves (I embark with a lot of dwarves) underground before the syndrome rain started (4 picks). With just one of your original seven mining you can make it, its usually just a matter of luck.

[Doktoro Reichard]

Embarking on an ocean.

The bottleneck I see is with alcohol. Are there any honey bee hives on the map? That could be the difference.

Ocean embarking works because you have soil and stone underneath it.
Even if there were bees in the map, due to the lack of materials, bee hives would have also to be brought in.

I actually have tried to understand how beekeeping works, but my initial view on the subject is that it's too much work for what it's worth, and also it implies a lot more micromanagement than what I would expect.

I don't think this embark would be unreasonably hard, it'd just be much more dependent on an optimised embark loadout and heavy trade than usual. And it would kill all wounded.

Probably this is the main part of the embark. For the fortress to succeed, there should have been some very careful planning beforehand.

[Sutremaine]

my initial view on the subject is that it's too much work for what it's worth, and also it implies a lot more micromanagement than what I would expect.

I think I've got a handle on dealing with the micromanagement. I make jugs out of only one material, which allows me to store them specifically by allowing only tools of that material within the stockpile. Both honey and royal jelly will end up in the same place, so the workshops that process those materials need to be close together for maximum efficiency.

[KingBacon]

Man, a region where it rains magma? THAT MUST BE THE DWARVEN HOLY LAND!

[Nil Eyeglazed]

Been away for a few versions, so maybe my understanding is out of date, but this is how I see it:

Thirst is the killer for sure.  Everything else, you can probably work around.  Population will grow until it exceeds your ability to provide drink.

After that, fortress crumbles, because you have no way to create slabs or coffins, and that means that even if a dwarf survives the drought and the tantrum, he won't survive the hauntings.

There are two solutions.  "Everybody's a vampire" doesn't work because you need water for that.  "Everybody's a were-iguana" works, but is almost impossible to pull off without risking fortress-ending ghosts.  And both depend on some really lucky circumstances.

But I think "no stone" is cheaty.  I don't think that's possible, is it?