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[Gentlefish]

I have no desire to carry on this discussion about confirmed town any further, but I have this to say. Lying? It just seems like semantics at this point. I don't like this branch of conversation, and although I still think you are repeating yourself, I will not rebutt, except to say that you are still picking and choosing in your bolded quotes, not picking all the relevant information. That's okay, though. You are scumhunting and I respect that.  I don't think Mastahcheese is scum, but 4mask seems like the most likely one to me. I'd rather this calmed down and we assigned it the importance it deserves.

As for my final statement on the matter, unless other questions provoke, I am not trying to prove myself in the clear. Only responding to you.  I don't think myself as confirmed, and it wouldn't matter if I did because nobody else does. All I meant was that I had a piece of evidence on my side
What do you want from me, Mastahcheese? Do you legitimately think I'm scum or are you just hunting?

I would apologize for the confusion, but I don't think it's mine to apologize for.

As for 4maskwolf's points, I thought I explained my reasoning for my vote flip-flop, but here they are again.
I voted TDS because he seemed to be the most suspicious and panicky at that time, (see other reasons, if you care)
I switched to 4mask because while TDS was giving us stuff to work with when he was gone (I thought it was certain at that time because I didn't know second extends were allowed), 4mask was preparing for how he would act when the person he was so sure was scum turned out to be town, and not probing about whether they were town, or scum, or whatever. 
I switched back to TDS because I thought things would result in a tie, and didn't want that.
Finally I switched back to 4mask because the tie turned out not to be happening, I saw him bandwagoning and we got an extend.

4mask I apologize, I didn't realize that you had had a rough week before the OMGUS. I will leave it be.
A vote on me right after Tiruin's death fits into the mafia's perceived (by me) plan.
Bandwagoning is a serious offence and I really would like to know why you didn't vote me before Mastahcheese did. I have already explained the voteswitching.
Your point #4 is, to be frank, ridiculous, irrelevant and seems to piggyback off what mastahcheese has been saying.

I sincerely hope whatever is wrong on your end clears up, 4mask . . . but my vote is staying on you. Cheers

1) Why are you giving up against MastahCheese's argument? By doing so you're only painting a larger target on your back.

2) Why are you so very sure that 4mask is scum? I want to hear a solid argument.

I've skimmed the RVS and the posts on this last of 7 pages of 50. Working my way through the rest, just need to make sure of where I'm standing, and need some points of clarification.

[4maskwolf]

What part of my response to mastahcheese do you find suspicious. I find mastahcheese's accusations kind of pointless.

I find you suspicious, LARD.  You've been pushing hard on this whole "confirmed townie" thing, then backing off when pressured, then subtly going back to it.  You're post with Cheese was just the icing on the cake.
And I was referring to problems back when I flipped out on TDS, my life is... fine... now.  That's all you need to know.

[LARD]

I don't understand how people misunderstand, "Mastahcheese, your arguments are repetitive and weren't valid in the first place. I do not wish to talk on the subject anymore." as me giving up under his accusations or backing off.
As for a solid argument, I gave my reasons.

A vote on me right after Tiruin's death fits into the mafia's perceived (by me) plan.
Bandwagoning is a serious offence and I really would like to know why you didn't vote me before Mastahcheese did. I have already explained the voteswitching.
Your point #4 is, to be frank, ridiculous, irrelevant and seems to piggyback off what mastahcheese has been saying.

In addition. 4mask voted me only after Mastahcheese did, although he said he had been suspicious of me for a while.

His reasons for putting the vote on me:

...LARD.  The vote switching confirms it.  You don't care which one of us gets lynched, because you are the scum.  You don't even ask TDS any questions, you just say "Well, I'm going to try to avoid a tie".  Only a scum or a townie who thinks he's caught scum would care about that, and you aren't staying on target.  You're making the vague accusation of "one of you is guilty because argument" and trying to get one of us lynched.  You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

Had you kept your vote on me after seeing Mastah's vote change, you could have gotten me lynched and gone on your merry way, with TDS being summarily executed tomorrow while you sat behind your confirmed town status.  Before that, even after Mastah's accusations, I didn't think that you were scum, but that last post changed my mind.

The main points of the argument are in bold, I think. Add more if you like 4mask. But for now there are only two of them, and the first one you admitted was already irrelevant, because I was avoiding a tie. (I do care which is lynched, as I made clear. I would rather it be 4mask, but I was willing to switch back to my 2nd choice if I needed to to avoid a tie.)
The second point is really not all that relevant either, because it applies to all beginners, and I pointed the mistake out in the first place.
I also don't have confirmed town status. Saying that in a post where you put a second vote on me (putting me in the lead for votes) is odd.
4mask has no case and are just riding the coat tails of Mastahcheese who is scumhunting me like crazy.
 

Mastahcheese
I apologize for this

you have the IQ of the common pencil sharpener

and this alone. I don't feel that anything else I said was out of order.
And your argument is not strengthened by my deflections for the simple reason that your argument was never valid. It is a dumb, simplistic argument based on me saying, "I have a bit of evidence on my side" I will repeat myself. You are arguing semantics. I believe that my meaning was always quite clear and if it wasn't initially, I have made my position clear in response to pretty much all your arguments.  I don't object to scumhunting, but why don't you hunt something that actually has a bit of grounding.  All I did was mention in passing that I had evidence on my side. This was to give weight to my words and to add power to my accusations on those who were accusing me.  Accusing me is not scummy in itself but more so because it seems to fit well with the mafia's plan of killing Tiruin and blaming it on me because I attracted so much attention in day 1.
You have been distracting everybody with your repetitve scum-hunt for a long time. I have not been lying. I have not been wasting your time. I also do not think you are scum, because you scumhunted Graknorke so hard in day 1, so this is just your style I suppose.  But I tire of it's repetitiveness. It is not brushing it off because there is nothing new to brush off. Only the old.  If you want to scumhunt me, fine.  But find a different angle, please. . . . pretty please?  I even have a suggestion. You could go after me for my tendency to accuse those who accuse me. I think that one is a bit more of a scumtell than the one you are currently on.


Sláinte everyone.

[4maskwolf]

I don't understand how people misunderstand, "Mastahcheese, your arguments are repetitive and weren't valid in the first place. I do not wish to talk on the subject anymore." as me giving up under his accusations or backing off.
As for a solid argument, I gave my reasons.

A vote on me right after Tiruin's death fits into the mafia's perceived (by me) plan.
Bandwagoning is a serious offence and I really would like to know why you didn't vote me before Mastahcheese did. I have already explained the voteswitching.
Your point #4 is, to be frank, ridiculous, irrelevant and seems to piggyback off what mastahcheese has been saying.

In addition. 4mask voted me only after Mastahcheese did, although he said he had been suspicious of me for a while.

His reasons for putting the vote on me:

...LARD.  The vote switching confirms it.  You don't care which one of us gets lynched, because you are the scum.  You don't even ask TDS any questions, you just say "Well, I'm going to try to avoid a tie".  Only a scum or a townie who thinks he's caught scum would care about that, and you aren't staying on target.  You're making the vague accusation of "one of you is guilty because argument" and trying to get one of us lynched.  You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

Had you kept your vote on me after seeing Mastah's vote change, you could have gotten me lynched and gone on your merry way, with TDS being summarily executed tomorrow while you sat behind your confirmed town status.  Before that, even after Mastah's accusations, I didn't think that you were scum, but that last post changed my mind.

The main points of the argument are in bold, I think. Add more if you like 4mask. But for now there are only two of them, and the first one you admitted was already irrelevant, because I was avoiding a tie. (I do care which is lynched, as I made clear. I would rather it be 4mask, but I was willing to switch back to my 2nd choice if I needed to to avoid a tie.)
The second point is really not all that relevant either, because it applies to all beginners, and I pointed the mistake out in the first place.
I also don't have confirmed town status. Saying that in a post where you put a second vote on me (putting me in the lead for votes) is odd.
4mask has no case and are just riding the coat tails of Mastahcheese who is scumhunting me like crazy.
 

Mastahcheese
I apologize for this

you have the IQ of the common pencil sharpener

and this alone. I don't feel that anything else I said was out of order.
And your argument is not strengthened by my deflections for the simple reason that your argument was never valid. It is a dumb, simplistic argument based on me saying, "I have a bit of evidence on my side" I will repeat myself. You are arguing semantics. I believe that my meaning was always quite clear and if it wasn't initially, I have made my position clear in response to pretty much all your arguments.  I don't object to scumhunting, but why don't you hunt something that actually has a bit of grounding.  All I did was mention in passing that I had evidence on my side. This was to give weight to my words and to add power to my accusations on those who were accusing me.  Accusing me is not scummy in itself but more so because it seems to fit well with the mafia's plan of killing Tiruin and blaming it on me because I attracted so much attention in day 1.
You have been distracting everybody with your repetitve scum-hunt for a long time. I have not been lying. I have not been wasting your time. I also do not think you are scum, because you scumhunted Graknorke so hard in day 1, so this is just your style I suppose.  But I tire of it's repetitiveness. It is not brushing it off because there is nothing new to brush off. Only the old.  If you want to scumhunt me, fine.  But find a different angle, please. . . . pretty please?  I even have a suggestion. You could go after me for my tendency to accuse those who accuse me. I think that one is a bit more of a scumtell than the one you are currently on.


Sláinte everyone.

LARD: I specifically said that I was suspicious of your pushing the whole town thing.
Why are you ignoring that, hmm?

[LARD]

Ignoring it? Are you kidding me? read my correspondence with mastahcheese. 

[4maskwolf]

You are ignoring the fact that I made that point and saying that I am just riding on the coattails of mastahcheese.  If that were so, I would have had to have voted TDS second, because we both had a vote on TDS, but I voted TDS FIRST.

[LARD]

Okay, so you voted TDS first, but that was in that odd OMGUS battle you had with TDS, as well as riding Graknorke's accusations of him. So yes, you were the first to vote him, but that isn't really a point in your favour.

[4maskwolf]

Okay, so you voted TDS first, but that was in that odd OMGUS battle you had with TDS, as well as riding Graknorke's accusations of him. So yes, you were the first to vote him, but that isn't really a point in your favour.

Riding Graknorke's accusations... maybe you should go reread that.  I got into that battle with him long before Graknorke got online.

[LARD]

TheDarkStar, I noticed that so far you've never been first onto a vote. It's always been after someone else made the first move. Any reason why you haven't instigated and carried through with anything? Always soon after too, like you're copying what other people say.

Here you go! Not as much as I thought there was, but it definitely precedes you.

[4maskwolf]

TheDarkStar, I noticed that so far you've never been first onto a vote. It's always been after someone else made the first move. Any reason why you haven't instigated and carried through with anything? Always soon after too, like you're copying what other people say.

Here you go! Not as much as I thought there was, but it definitely precedes you.

Perhaps, but if you notice I attack him on much broader grounds than that.  Yes, PART of my argument sounds like Graknorke's, but the rest of it is my own.

[LARD]

4mask: Please give me your other reasons for suspecting TDS other than his irresponsible voting habits, which Graknorke mentioned.

Everyone, especially mastahcheese: If this is how people react to a supposed bus, why does anybody do it?

[Tiruin]

Everyone, especially mastahcheese: If this is how people react to a supposed bus, why does anybody do it?

Because the reaction is subjective, not set in stone as a rule on how people react.
It's up to the person to discern whether its really a bus, or whatever else is happening.

...And I'll get back on the everything soon, probably later, because I've only got one giant major exam today and yay partial free time after.

[mastahcheese]

Everyone, especially mastahcheese: If this is how people react to a supposed bus, why does anybody do it?

(Tiruin sorta answered the big one on the subjectiveness)

The reason people will bus is because sometimes, when done correctly, it works, and when you do it really well, you can even frame other people of it.
Look over at the Good, Bad, and Ugly game, and look at the way that 4mask played in that one, where he, Imperial Guard, and myself were on a scum team.
In that game, he bussed IG on Day 1, and got away with it, and was even about to bus me later on, after almost everyone was convinced that he was town.

That is why scum bus, because it can get them major credit later on, which is also why people like me pay so much attention to things that look like buses, because we know just how powerful and dangerous they can be when done right.

[Jim Groovester]

Day 2 proceeds...

[2] 4maskwolf: TheDarkStar, LARD
[1] mastahcheese: Persus13
[2] LARD: mastahcheese, 4maskwolf

Day 2 ends on Tuesday 12:00 PM MST in approximately 23 hours.

Keep in mind that the day will end at this point exactly and all votes, extension requests, shortens, etc. after this point will be ignored.

[Graknorke]

LARD, there is a difference between saying that you're town and that there's evidence on your side and then insulting anyone who disagrees because they should agree with you entirely. Yet you keep denying that you said it at all. mastahcheese even made that lovely post highlighting every example. This isn't semantics, this is you denying something that demonstrably happened.

Everyone, especially mastahcheese: If this is how people react to a supposed bus, why does anybody do it?

Because usually a bus would go smoother than yours. If you were bussing you certainly didn't do it well, since nobody actually thought Solymr was scummy. Though I don't see what you did as bussing, it seemed more like a token effort at hunting him to me, you never really addressed anything in the way Persus did, you just said he was "vague" and voted. Like you didn't actually want your vote to go through.

TDS,

PPE: We really need to avoid a tie tonight. Someone needs to add another vote to 4maskwolf to break the tie; even if he is not scum, we get important information.

Wow that's actually pretty incriminating. I'm surprised nobody picked up on it at the time. It's like you don't think he's scum but want him lynched anyway, with flimsy reasoning. If you are town and 4mask gets lynched and flips town, what does that tell you? There's no way you could clear someone of suspicion of being his buddy because there can only be one scum left. You can't use the people who voted for him to determine who's scum, because there's only you and LARD so far who have, and neither of you are looking good.
So please explain TheDarkStar, what could you learn from a townlynch on 4mask?