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[4maskwolf]

I don't like it, especially with what TDS has been giving us lately, while 4maskwolf has just been trying to not get himself lynched tomorrow.

I'd like to ask a question about this and point out a slight logical fallacy.  TDS has been proposing the same thing over and over, in every post since our argument, which is to lynch one and power role the crap out of the other.  Also, town does have an interest in not being lynched, particularly because if a town player gets lynched tomorrow we enter Lylo the next day, assuming no power roles intervene.  While I agree with the scheme TDS has proposed, I think that we need to be looking around for the scum on the off chance that TDS flips town.  We need to think the long game, and if the day doesn't end then we need to have a plan and a way forward.  Right now, as it stands, if TDS and I are both town the day enters Lylo with no good leads.  Which is exactly why I scumhunted you, LARD: the town needs to have some backup plan.  Scum aren't the only ones who need to think for the endgame: in a situation like this, where two players are the only suspects, there needs to be some leads to go off of in the worst case scenario.

[Jim Groovester]

Day 2 proceeds...

[2] 4maskwolf: TheDarkStar, LARD
[2] TheDarkStar: 4maskwolf, mastahcheese
[1] darkpaladin109: Persus13

Day 2 will end on Friday 12:00 PM MST in approximately 17 hours.

[LARD]

I don't like this. I now would rather lynch 4mask than TDS, but I don't want a tie in votes. I would like mastahcheese to respond to my accusations against 4mask, but if he doesn't, then I will have to put my vote back on TDS.

I am uneasy because the people who we are about to lynch are not putting up the fight they would be if they were mafia.

In addition, it is important that the mafia remain in doubt as to what the power role will do.

This is my voice I use for talking outside of my gameplay.  It's kind of like an IC voice except that I don't give advice.  LARD and Graknorke, I would just like to congratulate you two for playing really well this game.  I wish I could say the same for the last two beginners, but one of them got themselves lynched out of the blue and the other is... absent.  Regardless, it's great to see you two playing so well: certainly better than I did my first day of playing .

Thanks

[4maskwolf]

LARD: I'm curious as to your accusations of me.  I believe that I addressed the salient points of your concerns in my past two posts, is there anything you want me to clarify?

[mastahcheese]

LARD
Your logic is faulty. You are accusing 4mask of jumping on you after a lynch. This is not suspicious. It is scumhunting.
You are accusing 4mask of thinking ahead. It would be idiotic to not think ahead.
You seem overconfident that TDS will get lynched, despite switching your vote.
You have been harping on and on about you being "confirmed" town, practically. Tell me, if it's so obvious that you're doing so well as to be in the "clear", why are you still alive? Why weren't you targeted? If you were doing as good as you claim, you'd be on the top of the hit list. Grak has also pointed this out, and repeating to point this out, while you defend yourself with the exact same argument of "your argument is invalid because all evidence is on my side". Guess what? Town doesn't work that hard to find proof that they're town unless they're commanded to do so. Which to me, only leaves the possibility that you are not town.

At first, I wasn't convinced that you were scum, I just thought something was off about you, but it's piled too high now.
I'm fairly sure that you're the other scum, LARD, and you did bus your buddy, just to harp on over and over about how bad of an idea it was, and give yourself credit.

There, tie broken.

[LARD]

I agree, you have given fine reasons, and I have a hard time telling which is guilty, so I'm going back to TDS to avoid a tie as this will likely be my last post before day end. I dunno, I have a hard time believing that he would give up this easy, although maybe he took my accusation on him for panicking seriously.  Sorry for the lack of good information.

 I'm enjoying this, but it seems like people have lost interest. 

PPE: Ah. That complicates things. Sorry, I don't have time to respond to that. I'll try, but my vote stays on TDS.

Enjoy!

[4maskwolf]

...LARD.  The vote switching confirms it.  You don't care which one of us gets lynched, because you are the scum.  You don't even ask TDS any questions, you just say "Well, I'm going to try to avoid a tie".  Only a scum or a townie who thinks he's caught scum would care about that, and you aren't staying on target.  You're making the vague accusation of "one of you is guilty because argument" and trying to get one of us lynched.  You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

Had you kept your vote on me after seeing Mastah's vote change, you could have gotten me lynched and gone on your merry way, with TDS being summarily executed tomorrow while you sat behind your confirmed town status.  Before that, even after Mastah's accusations, I didn't think that you were scum, but that last post changed my mind.

[Persus13]

LARD
Your logic is faulty. You are accusing 4mask of jumping on you after a lynch. This is not suspicious. It is scumhunting.
You are accusing 4mask of thinking ahead. It would be idiotic to not think ahead.
You seem overconfident that TDS will get lynched, despite switching your vote.
You have been harping on and on about you being "confirmed" town, practically. Tell me, if it's so obvious that you're doing so well as to be in the "clear", why are you still alive? Why weren't you targeted? If you were doing as good as you claim, you'd be on the top of the hit list. Grak has also pointed this out, and repeating to point this out, while you defend yourself with the exact same argument of "your argument is invalid because all evidence is on my side". Guess what? Town doesn't work that hard to find proof that they're town unless they're commanded to do so. Which to me, only leaves the possibility that you are not town.

At first, I wasn't convinced that you were scum, I just thought something was off about you, but it's piled too high now.
I'm fairly sure that you're the other scum, LARD, and you did bus your buddy, just to harp on over and over about how bad of an idea it was, and give yourself credit.

There, tie broken.

Well, maybe he's harping over how he's confirmed town because he keeps getting badgered about it. I've seen this type of thing before, where a person makes a comment about how they're town, and it gets flack for it, then gets flack for saying "But I AM town."

And some of your comments towards LARD aren't really making sense.

You say 4maskwolf was scumhunting LARD, when his entire post was this:

Initiating startup sequence...
Scanning for hostiles...
Hostiles not found...
Engaging seek and destroy...
Well then, LARD.  Killing off the "untrustworthy" IC's, are you?

Compare it to other people's posts, like Graknorke's on that same page.

I've read through most of Day 2, and seeing that most of it is a TDS/4maskwolf duel concerns me, mainly because both of them seem pretty town to me. In fact, I'd have to say Mastahcheese and Graknorke are my top two scum suspects at the moment.

Graknorke: I thought epichighfive was behaving oddly and in a scummy way, but I wasn't sure whether it was because he was new or because he was scum. Now I know.

...LARD.  The vote switching confirms it.  You don't care which one of us gets lynched, because you are the scum.  You don't even ask TDS any questions, you just say "Well, I'm going to try to avoid a tie".  Only a scum or a townie who thinks he's caught scum would care about that, and you aren't staying on target.  You're making the vague accusation of "one of you is guilty because argument" and trying to get one of us lynched.  You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

Had you kept your vote on me after seeing Mastah's vote change, you could have gotten me lynched and gone on your merry way, with TDS being summarily executed tomorrow while you sat behind your confirmed town status.  Before that, even after Mastah's accusations, I didn't think that you were scum, but that last post changed my mind.

Avoiding a tie is always a good policy. And LARD isn't the only one who has said that you or TDS are scum. Graknorke hs also said something to that effect.

[4maskwolf]

...LARD.  The vote switching confirms it.  You don't care which one of us gets lynched, because you are the scum.  You don't even ask TDS any questions, you just say "Well, I'm going to try to avoid a tie".  Only a scum or a townie who thinks he's caught scum would care about that, and you aren't staying on target.  You're making the vague accusation of "one of you is guilty because argument" and trying to get one of us lynched.  You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

Had you kept your vote on me after seeing Mastah's vote change, you could have gotten me lynched and gone on your merry way, with TDS being summarily executed tomorrow while you sat behind your confirmed town status.  Before that, even after Mastah's accusations, I didn't think that you were scum, but that last post changed my mind.

Avoiding a tie is always a good policy. And LARD isn't the only one who has said that you or TDS are scum. Graknorke hs also said something to that effect.

Hrmm.... I'll take your word for it, when it comes to breaking ties....
Extend, I need more time to think on this.  In the meantime, LARD, I'd be interested in hearing your rebuttal.

[mastahcheese]

Persus
So you believe that LARD is in the clear? No argument about this? What makes you so confident?
You say that 4mask wasn't hunting, siting only the first post he made. Did you look at any other post he made? How about this post of his, when he was arguing with TDS? He is hunting scum, he just hunts whoever seems the scummiest, and TDS replied before LARD did, and it seemed to have changed his mind.
You then also say that 4mask seems town, right after claiming that he wasn't scumhunting. What makes him seem town, then, if you don't believe that? Also, again, why is it that you seem so sure that LARD is town?
And what is it that seems scummy about Grak, now? I've stopped viewing him as scum, what's bothering you?

Also, extend

[LARD]

Whoohoo! Interesting stuff! Extend from me as well.
Mastahcheese. I have not been maintaining that I am in the clear. How many times do I need to say it? Although Bussing on day 1 is not only a bad move, it is also a jerk move in a BM to bus a first time mafia buddy. That would be mean. I would not do that!
Sorry, More later.

[Graknorke]

And LARD isn't the only one who has said that you or TDS are scum. Graknorke hs also said something to that effect.

It's a big assumption to base the success of the game on. Maybe if it comes down to that by the end of the day, but I really am not comfortable with a decision like that now.

No sorry, I said that I don't actually think that's the case.

Extend again, interesting developments always showing up before day end.

[LARD]

Okay, I have my rebuttal.
1. I was scum hunting, and my vote on 4mask was partly a pressure vote. As I explained, I would have put it back on TDS if others agreed. This was simply because I wanted to avoid a tie and I didn't know that a second extend was allowed.
2.

Initiating startup sequence...
Scanning for hostiles...
Hostiles not found...
Engaging seek and destroy...
Well then, LARD.  Killing off the "untrustworthy" IC's, are you?

This does not qualify as scumhunting. It is, as I said, trying to start another dogpile, which is a fine idea, as the last one was so telling, but it has very little basis in fact.
3.

You've covered your tracks well, but the kill on Tiruin is, as you said, a beginner mistake.  One that a beginner would make.  You're a beginner.  A savvy one, but still a beginner, and this is where you slipped up.

This, is not that sensible an argument to make. First, I cunningly and ruthlessly bus my scumbuddy, them I stupidly and inexperiencedly nk Tiruin, then I stupidly am the first to point out that an NK on Tiruin is a bad mafia move because it puts the blame on me.  If that's what you're claiming, okay, but even from your end, it should seem a little unlikely.

4. 4mask It's true that I didn't know which of you to lynch, and therefore I didn't really care. As you said, "Lynch one and powerrole the other." I just wanted to avoid a tie.  I wasn't very invested in the game because no one else seemed to be. Now, however. . .

5. Mastahcheese. I make a few passing remarks about how I have a bit of evidence on my side, you ask persistent and repetitive questions about my (nonexistent) claims to be, "In the clear" and then you accuse me of being obsessed with it when I respond to your questions. What the hemorrhaging deuce.

I, as the most likely town, (I think)

you missed the (I think)

As for Graknorke's argument about me being at the top of the nightkill list, your points are still not relevant. This is for the simple fact that nobody thought I had "evidence" on my side until today, the mafia didn't have a chance to nk me, but they would be doing their best to sully my name in this day.

How about another challenge. I had tried to lay another trap. This one involved making myself suspicious, and the first person to jump on me is mafia, because the mafia want me gone. It was a stupid plan. But now we have a new scenario. We have a bandwagoner on me, where only a bit before, he was buddying me and asking, "Who do you want to lynch first?"  Thank you mastahcheese, for bringing my trap to fruition, although not in the way I had intended, but we have a telling bandwagoner. How helpful that this bandwagoner was one who was one of the two to vote me after Tiruin died, and then panicked and flipped out.  I apologize for flip-flopping.  I will tell you 4maskwolf, you are the person I want to lynch first."

Cheers, more to come

[Graknorke]

This, is not that sensible an argument to make. First, I cunningly and ruthlessly bus my scumbuddy, them I stupidly and inexperiencedly nk Tiruin, then I stupidly am the first to point out that an NK on Tiruin is a bad mafia move because it puts the blame on me.  If that's what you're claiming, okay, but even from your end, it should seem a little unlikely.

I would say it's similar to a murderer reporting finding the body of their victim. It not only gives them an excuse as to why they would seem to have something to do with the crime with evidence of being there or to do with it, because they were there and so did have something to do with it; it also lets them have the scene discovered on their own terms, when everything is as they want it to be found. But naturally you can't just assume that the person who discovers a crime scene also committed the crime.
Let us not forget that the "either TDS or 4mask are scum" is a claim of your own creation, which is based on your conclusion that the mafia are trying to deflect attention away by framing you. The thing is, in a game like this, framing somebody like that is meaningless. That requires the sort of shallow reading and then running to a far-fetched conclusion that you've been prone to all day. And the person in the best position to frame you is you. You are the person most likely to have created this situation, because you are both the person in the best position to do such a thing, and the one who would think it would work.

LARD, do you still maintain that your previous assertions were true?
Also the second point in your rebuttal is almost a direct copy of what Persus13 said earlier.

Persus13, could you go over why you voted for mastahcheese and think that I'm scum? You didn't really explain so much as you did say it and lay down a vote.

[LARD]

My previous assertions were all I had to go on, and in essence, went like this:
The mafia's plan would involve killing Tiruin and putting the blame on me. They needed to do that quickly, and so I thought the first two who voted me were likely candidates for being scum.
I know that putting the blame on me was a bad idea and you cannot frame someone like that. However, it doesn't change the fact that two people acted directly in accordance with the mafia's presumed (by me) plan. They also both realized their mistake and both panicked. Only one of them jumped on a bandwagon, and that is why I voted 4mask.

Also, the murderer reporting the body of the victim, yes, it is possible, and I can't prove I didn't do that. But the real point of those three statements was the contrast between the clever bus on Solymr and the stupid nk of Tiruin, somebody who would throw suspicion on me. I already said, I would probably have nightkilled Mastahcheese because he is experienced, and was engaged in a debate. Graknorke would not have been blamed, Mastahcheese had no connection to me.
I realize that I have previously said that I would nightkill the one who was attacking me,

If I am scum and somebody is attacking me, I probably will attack them. It looks suspicious and I generally look suspicious when I play these games. So I can easily pass it off as the scum trying to kill someone and blame it on me, as I was the (sadly) deceased's target.

I know this is contradictory to what I am saying now, but I have decided that ambiguity and not controversy.

MastahCheese Of course it would be idiotic not to think ahead, but to plan for what happens after we lynch a town like it is guaranteed, I don't know, I guess that wasn't a very strong point.
I also like to attempt to prove I am town, or at least cite evidence, because it gives weight to my words.