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[Frumple]

...

... did I completely forget last sunday? Huh.

I'll, uh. Try to show up? Probably. I'm not actually sure, because I've got out-of-town family showing up that day, wisdom teeth removal early the next morning, and a couple hundred gigs of old hard drive to sort through before either, but. Will try.

[Aklyon]

Its more "Frumples not online, Gig here, Seb here, Tarran here, i'm here, lets'a go" then you missing it.

And then lolraidengine3hopsfromtarran. Twice. So you didn't miss a lot.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Is it possible for me to join this?  I grabbed it and a few of its DLC off of humble bundle when it was offered, but I haven't yet installed it.

[Tarran]

And then lolraidengine3hopsfromtarran. Twice. So you didn't miss a lot.

Screw Raid Engines. Seriously.

Admittedly, yes, I could've scouted better, I could've been more cautious, but come on, who expects raid engines just a few jumps from your home?

Well, at least I've learned my lesson, if nothing else. I do hope others have learned the same via proxy.

Is it possible for me to join this?  I grabbed it and a few of its DLC off of humble bundle when it was offered, but I haven't yet installed it.

I don't see why not, though I would recommend at least trying it yourself and playing by yourself a little before you join multiplayer, because the AI tends to be noticeably more brutal when there are more players, and learning during multiplayer isn't exactly the greatest idea.

[Aklyon]

Also while it'd be nice, you don't need to have the most recent expansion Zanzetkuken, just the previous ones along with what Tarran said.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Also while it'd be nice, you don't need to have the most recent expansion Zanzetkuken, just the previous ones along with what Tarran said.

On steam, does that mean having Children of Neinzul, having both the prior and Ancient Shadows, or all three?

Nevermind, apparently Steam only displays 3 at a time.

[Aklyon]

The latest expansion is Destroyer of Worlds, the sixth one.

[GiglameshDespair]

Destroyer of worlds does seem to add quite a lot though.

[Tarran]

I'm going to probably be on chat this week as usual, I expect others to be so too or I will eat your souls.

Okay, maybe I'll do something less drastic but I'll be mildly upset nonetheless.

[Aklyon]

Assuming I feel less terrible/stuffy by sunday, I'll be there.

[Tarran]

If anyone else wants to play a game today, go ahead and join chat. Or you could, you know, either spend your time playing with real life friends or being all by yourself if you don't want to play.

[Aklyon]

Here's a few bits of text from the wave logs, although I dunno if this'll help with balancing things out or just be a pile of words and numbers.

Spoiler: Wave: Youngster AI, Diff 7, 515 AIP, Tech 2 (click to show/hide)

10/19/2014 7:44:40 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
= CheckForWave proceeding with wave for player 9 because AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave is now >= normalWaveStrength at Game Time: 6:43:25
normalWaveStrength:12973.02
AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave:12976.03

= computation of normalWaveStrength:
FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= this.AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= (FInt)Game.Instance.Options.TotalHumanPlayerPlusExtraHomeworldsCount = 8
FleetShipBudget *= this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 4120
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 4120
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 1.17
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 4806
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 7208.99
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.GetDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier() = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 16220.24
Because Diff >= 7 and entry_points = 7, entryPointMultiplier = 0.8
Because game time > 2 hours, using full entryPointMultiplier
normalWaveStrength *= entryPointMultiplier = 12973.02
normalWaveStrength *= this.WaitingBasedMultiplierForNextNormalWave = 12973.02
minimumStrength = 200

= AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave (after the first wave) is based on, every second, adding ( baseWaveStrength / normalWaveIntervalInSeconds )
computation of baseWaveStrength is the same as normalWaveStrength, but without the entry-point-multiplier and later stuff

= computation of normalWaveIntervalInSeconds:
interval = floor( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 * 60 ) = 1260

so, if you're curious, amountToGainPerSecond is 12.87
since player.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements > 0 (from donated reinforcement budget that couldn't be used due to capping) :
waveStrength += this.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements = 57409.98

10/19/2014 7:44:40 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
Starting CreateWaveToPlanet at Game Time: 6:43:25 ; Player.AIType: NeinzulYoungster ; Player.AIDifficulty: 7 ; EffectiveAIP: 515 ; AITechLevel: 2 ; IsSchizo: True
WaveStrength = 28704.99

= FleetShipBudget for this wave's fleet ships = 28704.99

AIP is between the current tech level's AIP threshold and the next tech level's, so promotionRatio (percent of fleet ships to be bought from next tech level up) = 0.57
Normal wave, but AIType has GetsNeinzulYoungsterLogic flag, so spend 100% of the strength budget on types from the Neinzul group
* called PickUnitsForWave with: YounglingCommandoII, YounglingTigerII, YounglingVultureII, YounglingWeaselII, YounglingNanoswarmII, YounglingFireflyII
** Picked
394 YounglingWeaselII @ 5.33 each = 2101.3
368 YounglingVultureII @ 5.33 each = 1962.64
388 YounglingFireflyII @ 5.33 each = 2069.3
389 YounglingNanoswarmII @ 5.33 each = 2074.64
377 YounglingTigerII @ 5.33 each = 2010.64
400 YounglingCommandoII @ 5.33 each = 2133.3
320 YounglingFireflyIII @ 8 each = 2560
356 YounglingTigerIII @ 8 each = 2848
343 YounglingVultureIII @ 8 each = 2744
357 YounglingNanoswarmIII @ 8 each = 2856
352 YounglingCommandoIII @ 8 each = 2816
317 YounglingWeaselIII @ 8 each = 2536
= After picking fleet ships, FleetShipBudget is now 0

player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier: 0.08
= StarshipBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier = 2410.77
* called PickUnitsForWave with: Flagship, AIRaidStarship, DreadnoughtII, LeechStarshipII, BomberStarship, ZenithStarshipI, SpireStarshipI
** Picked
3 LeechStarshipII @ 192 each = 576
3 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 576
2 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 128
2 BomberStarship @ 96 each = 192
3 ZenithStarshipI @ 192 each = 576
1 Flagship @ 192 each = 192
1 SpireStarshipI @ 192 each = 192
= After picking starships, StarshipBudget is now -21.23


== Wave total ships: 4376
TypesForDirectAdd count by type:
YounglingWeaselII : 394
YounglingVultureII : 106
TypesForCarrierAdd count by type:
YounglingVultureII : 262
YounglingFireflyII : 388
YounglingNanoswarmII : 389
YounglingTigerII : 377
YounglingCommandoII : 400
YounglingFireflyIII : 320
YounglingTigerIII : 356
YounglingVultureIII : 343
YounglingNanoswarmIII : 357
YounglingCommandoIII : 352
YounglingWeaselIII : 317
LeechStarshipII : 3
DreadnoughtII : 3
AIRaidStarship : 2
BomberStarship : 2
ZenithStarshipI : 3
Flagship : 1
SpireStarshipI : 1
== For a grand-total Strength value of 45500

Spoiler: Wave: Chivalric AI, Diff 7, 515 AIP, Tech 2 (click to show/hide)

10/19/2014 7:47:59 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
= CheckForWave proceeding with wave for player 8 because AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave is now >= normalWaveStrength at Game Time: 6:45:48
normalWaveStrength:13593.8
AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave:13593.94

= computation of normalWaveStrength:
FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= this.AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= (FInt)Game.Instance.Options.TotalHumanPlayerPlusExtraHomeworldsCount = 8
FleetShipBudget *= this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 4120
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 4120
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 1.17
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 4806
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 7208.99
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.GetDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier() = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 16220.24
Because Diff >= 7 and entry_points = 7, entryPointMultiplier = 0.8
Because game time > 2 hours, using full entryPointMultiplier
normalWaveStrength *= entryPointMultiplier = 12973.02
normalWaveStrength *= this.WaitingBasedMultiplierForNextNormalWave = 13593.8
minimumStrength = 200

= AccumulatedStrengthForNextWave (after the first wave) is based on, every second, adding ( baseWaveStrength / normalWaveIntervalInSeconds )
computation of baseWaveStrength is the same as normalWaveStrength, but without the entry-point-multiplier and later stuff

= computation of normalWaveIntervalInSeconds:
interval = floor( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 * 60 ) = 1260

so, if you're curious, amountToGainPerSecond is 12.87
since player.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements > 0 (from donated reinforcement budget that couldn't be used due to capping) :
waveStrength += this.SurplusWaveStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements = 52888.95

10/19/2014 7:47:59 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
Starting CreateWaveToPlanet at Game Time: 6:45:48 ; Player.AIType: Chivalric ; Player.AIDifficulty: 7 ; EffectiveAIP: 515 ; AITechLevel: 2 ; IsSchizo: False
WaveStrength = 26444.48

= FleetShipBudget for this wave's fleet ships = 26444.48

percentChanceParasiteWave (from AI type) = 0.06
percentChanceBomberWave (from AI type) = 0.14
percentChanceStealthWave (from AI type) = 0.06
= actually chosen WaveType: Normal

AIP is between the current tech level's AIP threshold and the next tech level's, so promotionRatio (percent of fleet ships to be bought from next tech level up) = 0.57
Some strength budget remaining from previous pick phases (if any), so spend what remains on types from the Normal group
* called PickUnitsForWave with: FighterII, BomberII, MissileShipII, RaiderII, AntiArmorShipII, BulletproofFighterII, ZenithParalyzerII, ZenithChameleonII, YounglingTigerII, TackleDroneLauncherII
** Picked 1707 FighterII @ 6.67 each = 11380.14
** Picked 1507 FighterIII @ 10 each = 15070.37
= After picking fleet ships, FleetShipBudget is now -6.03

player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier: 0.08
= StarshipBudget = originalFleetShipBudget * player.AITypeData.StarshipBudgetMultiplier = 2220.92
* called PickUnitsForWave with: Flagship, AIRaidStarship, DreadnoughtII, LeechStarshipII, BomberStarship, ZenithStarshipI, SpireStarshipI
** Picked
3 SpireStarshipI @ 192 each = 576
2 Flagship @ 192 each = 384
3 AIRaidStarship @ 64 each = 192
4 LeechStarshipII @ 192 each = 768
3 BomberStarship @ 96 each = 288
1 DreadnoughtII @ 192 each = 192
= After picking starships, StarshipBudget is now -179.08


== Wave total ships: 3230
TypesForDirectAdd count by type:
FighterII : 500
TypesForCarrierAdd count by type:
FighterII : 1207
FighterIII : 1507
SpireStarshipI : 3
Flagship : 2
AIRaidStarship : 3
LeechStarshipII : 4
BomberStarship : 3
DreadnoughtII : 1
== For a grand-total Strength value of 34140

Spoiler: The last CPA (click to show/hide)

10/19/2014 7:24:38 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
Triggering CPA (always from first AI); Game Time: 6:30:00
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 515
since diff == 7, numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 360
minimumAIPForCPAPurposes = Game.Instance.GameSecond / numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 65
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = Max(effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes,minimumAIPForCPAPurposes) = 515
difficultyFactor = ( this.AIDifficulty * this.GetHandicapMultiplier() ) / ( 13 - this.AIDifficulty ) : 1.17
aiTypeFactor = 1.5
simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor = Mat.One + ( ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 ) / ( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 ) ) : 1.67
simulateDoubleWaveFactor = 2
simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier = 2.25
humanHomeworldCountMultiplier = Mat.One + (FInt)( humanHomeworldCount - 1 ) = 4
numberOfShips (before applying cap-scale) = ( (FInt)effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes * difficultyFactor * aiTypeFactor * simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor * simulateDoubleWaveFactor * simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier * humanHomeworldCountMultiplier ).IntValue = 27031
numberOfShips (after applying cap-scale) = 6757

since player.SurplusCPAStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements > 0 (from donated reinforcement budget that couldn't be used due to capping) :
waveStrength += this.SurplusCPAStrengthDonatedFromReinforcements / 5 = 12508

Spoiler: Nemesis exo things (click to show/hide)

9/21/2014 7:45:25 PM (8.014)
-----------------------------------
= CheckForNemesisExo; Game Time: 2:01:22
intensity: 5
AccumulatedEventWaveCounter : 25998
NextRawEventWaveSize : 26000
since GameSecond % 22 == 0, AccumulatedEventWaveCounter += eventAttackCounterIncrement 334
adjustedExoBudget = Max( NextRawEventWaveSize, AccumulatedEventWaveCounter ) = 26332
AccumulatedEventWaveCounter -= adjustedExoBudget = 0
multiplier = 1
multiplier *= Mat.One + ( ( championCount - 1 ) * FInt.FromParts( 0, 142 ) ) = 1.43
multiplier *= Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier = 5.7
multiplier *= this.GetStrengthMultiplierForPlotIntensity( intensity ) = 6.27
adjustedExoBudget *= this.GetTotalResponseMultiplier( intensity ) = 165140.73
strengthPerChampion = (human shadow frigate).GetCostForAIWave() = 300
strengthPerReferenceUnit = (mkI hunter killer).GetCostForAIWave() = 3960
exoCostPerRefernceUnit = (mkI hunter killer).GetReferenceCostForTier() = 32768
theoreticalExoCostPerChampion = exoCostPerRefernceUnit * ( strengthPerChampion / strengthPerReferenceUnit ) = 2480
championsPerExo = ( ( adjustedExoBudget / theoreticalExoCostPerChampion ) / 2 ).IntValue = 33

[Some text later, after lowering to intensity 2]

10/19/2014 6:32:10 PM (8.019)
-----------------------------------
= CheckForNemesisExo; Game Time: 6:00:22
intensity: 2
AccumulatedEventWaveCounter : 40360
NextRawEventWaveSize : 40625
since GameSecond % 22 == 0, AccumulatedEventWaveCounter += eventAttackCounterIncrement 515
adjustedExoBudget = Max( NextRawEventWaveSize, AccumulatedEventWaveCounter ) = 40875
AccumulatedEventWaveCounter -= adjustedExoBudget = 0
multiplier = 1
multiplier *= Mat.One + ( ( championCount - 1 ) * FInt.FromParts( 0, 142 ) ) = 1.43
multiplier *= Game.Instance.Options.TotalSpecialDifficultyModifier = 5.7
multiplier *= this.GetStrengthMultiplierForPlotIntensity( intensity ) = 2.28
adjustedExoBudget *= this.GetTotalResponseMultiplier( intensity ) = 93206.18
strengthPerChampion = (human shadow frigate).GetCostForAIWave() = 300
strengthPerReferenceUnit = (mkI hunter killer).GetCostForAIWave() = 3960
exoCostPerRefernceUnit = (mkI hunter killer).GetReferenceCostForTier() = 32768
theoreticalExoCostPerChampion = exoCostPerRefernceUnit * ( strengthPerChampion / strengthPerReferenceUnit ) = 2480
championsPerExo = ( ( adjustedExoBudget / theoreticalExoCostPerChampion ) / 2 ).IntValue = 18

[Tarran]

I'll be sitting in chat tomorrow, anyone interested in a game go ahead and join.

[wer6]

Sorry I havent been so hot with this, School and hte fact that I am bad at this game, have not won once.

[Aklyon]

The word of the day is Kiting.

Also we managed to not die from ridiculous waveage.