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[Tiruin]

From what I can see, flabort and Tiruin have mostly lost their original points that they were arguing over. Currently, flabort says that Tiruin needs to explain more by posting more clearly, and Tiruin says that flabort needs to explain more by using explanations and quotes. While beneficial to be said, it doesn't really help find scum.

However, there is Tiruin's defense of Tawa:

*facepalms*
WHERE IS HE ACTING SCUMMY?1 WHAT POST, IS HE, ACTING SCUMMY? THAT IS WHAT I'M ASKING.
PLEASE QUOTE WHERE TAWAROCHIR IS ACTING SCUMMY, IN YOUR DEFINITION OF SCUMMY, BECAUSE WHERE I CAN SEE IT, HE'S FLAILING AROUND AND VOTE-JUMPING BECAUSE HES CONTRADICTING HIMSELF.

Why do you not define self-contradicting as scummy?

...That self-contradicting is scummy. That was addressed to flabort, and was NOT my 'defense' of Tawa.
Next rule: Fix that 'defense' label commonly flying about and misused.

And from what you see?
What do you really see other than looking at the recentmost post? Because that's as far as I see you're seeing.

[TheDarkStar]

From what I can see, flabort and Tiruin have mostly lost their original points that they were arguing over. Currently, flabort says that Tiruin needs to explain more by posting more clearly, and Tiruin says that flabort needs to explain more by using explanations and quotes. While beneficial to be said, it doesn't really help find scum.

However, there is Tiruin's defense of Tawa:

*facepalms*
WHERE IS HE ACTING SCUMMY?1 WHAT POST, IS HE, ACTING SCUMMY? THAT IS WHAT I'M ASKING.
PLEASE QUOTE WHERE TAWAROCHIR IS ACTING SCUMMY, IN YOUR DEFINITION OF SCUMMY, BECAUSE WHERE I CAN SEE IT, HE'S FLAILING AROUND AND VOTE-JUMPING BECAUSE HES CONTRADICTING HIMSELF.

Why do you not define self-contradicting as scummy?

...That self-contradicting is scummy. That was addressed to flabort, and was NOT my 'defense' of Tawa.
Next rule: Fix that 'defense' label commonly flying about and misused.

And from what you see?
What do you really see other than looking at the recentmost post? Because that's as far as I see you're seeing.

1. Sorry, you were a bit ambiguous. I see what you're saying now.

2. Glancing at the last two pages or so shows similar things. Currently, I don't have time to go through much more than that. You and flabort did get a little off-track, though.

[Tiruin]

2. Glancing at the last two pages or so shows similar things.

...Like? I see many totally heterogenous things.

[flabort]

From what I can see, flabort and Tiruin have mostly lost their original points that they were arguing over. Currently, flabort says that Tiruin needs to explain more by posting more clearly, and Tiruin says that flabort needs to explain more by using explanations and quotes. While beneficial to be said, it doesn't really help find scum.

Tiruin:
I feel that because others feel we are getting off track, can we agree to drop our current line of discussion? I am willing to let others use the remaining day-days to discuss other matters, without clogging up the thread with our argument.

flabort:A similar idea would work: Beat one person, inspect the other, and then have the inspector either tell people if he found scum or say nothing (and especially not claiming) if he didn't find anything. If nothing is said, we assume the inspected person to be town. If he's scum, both the town and the scum lose one person, but it's much worse for the scum. Using this, we'd be able to determine if either you or Tiruin are scum without necessarily losing people from the town.

I can agree to this. Though I just realized that if Tir or me are the inspector, the plan doesn't work; I'm not, though.

My reads:
Tiruin: slight scum lean
Tawa: Scum lean
Flabort: slight scum lean
All you lurkers: Get in here and post! Slight scum lean for Caz, Persus13, Whitius, Jiokey

Figured I'd move your lurker reads to one spot, and highlight your scum reads.
So nothing definitive, but you feel the same way on most points but a couple:
I'm pretty sure I've seen Whitius posting more than lurking (though it was probably drowned out between Tir and me), and I know but can't prove I'm town.

[Tiruin]

From what I can see, flabort and Tiruin have mostly lost their original points that they were arguing over. Currently, flabort says that Tiruin needs to explain more by posting more clearly, and Tiruin says that flabort needs to explain more by using explanations and quotes. While beneficial to be said, it doesn't really help find scum.

Tiruin:
I feel that because others feel we are getting off track, can we agree to drop our current line of discussion? I am willing to let others use the remaining day-days to discuss other matters, without clogging up the thread with our argument.

No.

Because what I did on MY line of discussion is directly related to why I suspect you.

Which I'm pretty amazed TDS missed.

I can agree to this. Though I just realized that if Tir or me are the inspector, the plan doesn't work; I'm not, though.

The suggestion in itself was a bad idea.

All you lurkers: Get in here and post! Slight scum lean for Caz, Persus13, Whitius, Jiokey

[/quote]I'll 'defend' Caz (as in speak for her person) and say that she's undergoing life troubles at the moment. 
Please don't ask why. I...have trouble with it too.

[4maskwolf]

All you lurkers: Get in here and post! Slight scum lean for Caz, Persus13, Whitius, Jiokey

I'll 'defend' Caz (as in speak for her person) and say that she's undergoing life troubles at the moment. 
Please don't ask why. I...have trouble with it too.
[/quote]
Tell her that we all care about her.

[Tiruin]

I can't...The last time I saw her is when...-that- happened. :S
I don't see her in the lower boards IRC. None of the others have.
Anyway, back to game...

[Superblackcat]

Mastahcheese: Slight town lean... but I always feel like mastah is town >.>. so a null read, he hasn't done anything surprising.
Caz: Urgghhh Null read... Seriously... (And due to this null read, I'd say slightly scummy).
TheDarkStar: Slight town read, He has been trying to scum hunt...
Persus13: OMG WRST SCUM EVR, STILL VOTING ME, OMG PLS WRST SCUM! Not quite sure why Persus is still voting me, but I've really not seen much action since I've joined the fray, and reads are hard to get when you aren't in the fray.
Tiruin: The more townie gal between Tiruin and Flabort, but I've not see Tir on the attack yet.
Deathsword:Nulllll
Tawarochir: OMG pls, Noooooooooooooooooooooooob. Yeah, a scummy noob.
Flabort: I'd say the scummier of the two between Tiruin and Flabort, because he's trying to make connections that aren't there.
WhitiusOpus: I'm leaning kinda towards scum right now. The way he/she has been playing... isn't really making me happy
Jiokuy: Who is this guy?
Superblackcat: Obviously Scum.

[Tawa]

Mua ha ha. You've all fallen into my trap and think I am but a scummy noob.

MUA HA HA HA!

Anyway, yeah, my vote is firmly on flabort. Don't expect to see me for a bit.

[Jiokuy]

Tawarochir: It does not seem helpful, to town, to hard vote someone without also using your vote as a method of detecting their innocence. If we have to waste another night confirming town (praying there is not a cult(confirmed?)) you have come across as more worthy of a loyaltyflip than flabort.

flabort and TheDarkStar: I have not ran across many games where the mafia would forgo their night kill. Do you have any insight into this matter?

PS: Sorry about the delay. Back to back finals.

[Tawa]

Fair point. However...

Flabort has been both coming down on Tiruin and I hard and he has been making unbacked guesses too. (Please see prior two pages for evidence.) My leads:

Tiruin: Trying to be helpful and at the same time practical. Don't see a lean.
TheDarkStar: Votes me because I kept voting willy-nilly and couldn't make a decision, pinning scummy on me. Slight scum lean, not one hundred percent sure..
Flabort: Flabort has been making wild guesses with minimal evidence. Heavy scum lean.
Mastahcheese: Leaning town.
Basically Everyone Else: Haven't been posting enough for me to get a lead on them.
Me: Everyone thinks I'm a flailing noob who has no clue what to do. Some of you feel that doesn't prevent my scumminess while others feel that I am just a townie trying to find my way.
Jiokuy: Well, I'm not going to pin something on you instantly because you're voting me, and you're leaning town right now. I am trying to detect flabort's innocence, it's just every time I think he might not be scum he just seems to get scummier.

[mastahcheese]

Ok, first off, saying stuff like that what with the evil laugh is generally considered rather odd, unless you are being overtly sarcastic with fake [sarcasm] tags and all that.
Just saying.

Also,

Mastahcheese: Leaning town.

You gave at least a bit of explanation into your reads for everybody, except me. Is there nothing at all to say?

[TheDarkStar]

SBC: Your reads seem to be written to incite people to vote for you (insults to the guy who reaction-votes, and almost everyone "leans scum" or is neutral), unless it's just sarcasm that I'm missing. There isn't a jester role, right?

Tawa: You still need to explain the things you are saying. You have lots of one-line voting posts, but there is not much reasoning for what you do. Also, your reads don't make you seem better. You consider Tiruin to be fine because she doesn't think you are scum, and you think me and Flabort and scum just because we voted for you. You don't consider Jiokuy to be scum for the same thing, but you seem oddly reluctant to have your loyalty shown. On the other hand, you don't explain your reasons for Mastahcheese being town and you consider Tiruin null, despite your description of her actions (which should probably be a town indicator for you). Can you explain your reads in more detail?

Jiokuy:

Tawarochir: It does not seem helpful, to town, to hard vote someone without also using your vote as a method of detecting their innocence. If we have to waste another night confirming town (praying there is not a cult(confirmed?)) you have come across as more worthy of a loyaltyflip than flabort.

flabort and TheDarkStar: I have not ran across many games where the mafia would forgo their night kill. Do you have any insight into this matter?

PS: Sorry about the delay. Back to back finals.

My guesses for the lack of a kill:
1. They were blocked, and the blocker is waiting to get confirmation.
2. The target was healed/protected.
3. The scum didn't kill to confuse blockers and cause a mislynch.

[flabort]

flabort and TheDarkStar: I have not ran across many games where the mafia would forgo their night kill. Do you have any insight into this matter?

As far as games I've played, the only time this happened was in Seers Academy, where all of the players were investigators (Seers). They wanted to avoid detection that night, by not targeting anyone.
As to this game, I think it was said somewhere that if you have more than one night ability, you must pick one; and that the scum kill was considered a night ability. This seems like an interesting mechanic and I'm going to store it away for later.

[WhitiusOpus]

Whitius: Are you a he or a she?

What do you think about the other people, and do you understand the concept of participating and pushing and attacking people even when you don't think you can attack them for it?

I think you are scum because you just conformed to what other people thought yesterday, In my eyes, either you point out the reason, be one of the first people to suggest it, or attack the people who did vote him to see what other information you can glean.

Sorry, I've been having internet probs. (again) this time due to inclement weather. Damnit Midwest!

Anywho, I'm a he, thanks very much.

My current read on people:

Tiruin: Very active in rooting out dissent, and seems to be everyone's current argue buddy. Town lean.
TheDarkStar: I'm not quite sure here, I see a slight scum lean, but also seems very active in scum hunting when possible.
Flabort: "Flabort has been making wild guesses with minimal evidence. Heavy scum lean." Pretty much my feeling as well.
Mastahcheese: townie, besides previous attempts to lynch me make me play.
Persus, etc: Hasn't really posted much for me to get a read, either that or I haven't paid as much attention as I should have. Maybe notes are a good idea...
Me: I admit I look like a lurker, but that is not my goal, or at least I'm trying to not lurk as much as possible. Sorry if I don't seem as in-the-zone as everyone else, I'm trying to get used to this game.
Jiokuy: Leaning scum, as he was quick to jump onto tawa without providing real evidence other than an attack on the type of votes he was using.

unvote mastahcheese, vote Jiokuy

Jiokuy: Do you think tawa is guilty of misvoting, or wasting his vote on purpose? It was hard for me to understand, but it seems you will blame the possibility of a mislynch on him. Care to comment?

to all: Sorry to be seen as lurking, that wasn't my goal and I'm trying to get into this more, I just have a lot of projects to work on currently. I haven't had much time to play games, even if they're SRS BSNS MAFIA.

Tiruin: Why is self-contradiction an inherently scummy action? Could it also be a rookie mistake?

Caz: Y U NO HERE?