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[SalmonGod]

Knock me out (with drugs) and then either shoot me through the brain or drop me from a ridiculous height.

[Vattic]

I don't really understand why people interested in "humane" executions don't knock the prisoner out first... Seems to me it's less about what is actually humane and more about what looks humane. The pageantry of it all.

That's what the first drug they give you as part of a lethal injection is supposed to do, but there is controversy surrounding it's effectiveness.

[Chaoswizkid]

Good point. I'd misunderstood the "was indicted in the United States" bit at the end of the linked article - that was probably referring to a previous thing. I don't really know, then. If he's extradited, then yeah, he resumes being fucked. If he's not, then I don't know Mexican politics well enough to conclude how important it is for the government to keep him imprisoned properly. He escaped once before, but I also don't know whether that makes a repeat more likely or not.

Last I checked (years back), the Mexican political situation was basically that the country was run in a feudalistic, nobles-with-money-rule-all sort of situation. Sure, there's a 'government' and 'police' and whatnot, but they basically have power amounting to fuck-all because anyone that isn't completely bought-out is too scared to rock the boat because they are few and far between and they have to seriously worry about their own safety and the safety of even their extended family if they do rock the boat. The people with money are able to afford their own protection and bribes, and they pay for that even if they aren't involved in drug cartels or other illegal activities.

Essentially Mexico was/is a giant festering hellhole and the drug cartel situation was forcing something of an unofficial civil war: the government + police + innocents vs. the government + police + drug cartels. This guy was responsible for a huge chunk of what was going on, though, so hopefully with him gone the corruption can get rooted out (will also probably result in a lot of violence but the end result is far better than the status quo now). I don't think his arrest is going to stop all of the tourists being kidnapped/murdered/raped/murder-raped/etc., or all of the other drug-unrelated horrible things going on, but some people might be able to finally focus on that now that they aren't tripping over drug cartels every half-step. There'll still be cartels there, but I think that the organization this guy built is going to crumble because so much importance was placed on himself.

[Sheb]

putting a big fat full stop on all their hopes, dreams and ambitions.

So do you with life without parole.

[DJ]

Except that's barbaric and just says that the Mexican government is willing to stoop to their level.

No, they need to stoop below their level. Intimidation always works if you use enough of it. You don't hear anything about organized crime and gang violence in Best Korea, do you now?

[Darvi]

I'm pretty sure Best Korea is all organised crime. It's literally the only thing I hear of the place.

[Sheb]

Don't they have the biggest meth production in the world? Also, most of their economy is technically illegal (since the official economy ain't working). So yeah, they're like a big pile of gangs, overruled by a criminal government.

[DJ]

It's all part of the hierarchy under the Glorious Leader. And isn't every government essentially organized crime?

[Sheb]

Not exactly. The block market for exemple ain't government controlled, and I doubt the whole meth production is.

And I don't argue with creationists, climate change denier and libertarians. 

[Zangi]

I'm more against the 'humane' part of the execution part.  Its just frivolously dressing up something that should not be 'sanitized', just so that it would be more palatable to those who condemn the person to it.  (Yea, I also believe that if you are willing to sentence someone to death, that you should also be the one to carry it out or at the least be physically present.)

Okay, then, I'm back to being confused. I don't think the only conceivable motive for a humane execution is that you're uncomfortable with the idea. I agree that you shouldn't hide the consequences of your decisions behind euphemisms - but that's only one reason for talking about humane executions, and it's far from the most compelling. As I was trying to illustrate before, if you think the death-by-acid method is more wrong than the death-by-headshot-while-asleep method, you understand on some level why it's preferable to execute people in as humane a way as possible.

What it sounds like you're saying is that executions should be somewhat messy so that the people responsible can't ignore the reality of ending a life, and while I agree with the goal you have in mind, I feel like the welfare of the executioner is somewhat less important here.

I'm saying you don't need to look for elaborate ways to execute people, like the electric chair or the lethal injection method.
The last meal, a preacherperson if you please and a bullet for the heart/head is all you need.

I don't really understand why people interested in "humane" executions don't knock the prisoner out first... Seems to me it's less about what is actually humane and more about what looks humane. The pageantry of it all.

  Indeed.

[MorleyDev]

Well in terms of the "best" death you could give, you're looking at something like Nitrogen Asphyxiation. You go out on one of a giddy high, but then the question becomes "Do we want people who have caused pain to die a pleasant death?".

I don't believe there is justice in the death penalty, and I rationally know the justice system shouldn't be about revenge or making them pay, and so in that respect oppose the death penalty. But emotionally a part of me can't help but feel that some acts are so heinous, so fundamentally wrong, that revenge is the closest to good that can come out of them. So on that emotional level, I can't help but feel that there may be some value in satiating the inner tiger that demands blood for someone encroaching on the life of their loved ones so brutally. That it may be the nearest you can come to righting the wrong is another wrong. It's about revenge, and that's not something I can rationally support, but on an emotional level I can't condemn it either.

So yeah, it's a complex thing and I don't have answers.

[Sheb]

the nearest you can come to writing the wrong is another wrong.

The nearest you can come to writing the wrong is T-H-E- -W-R-O-N-G.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

the nearest you can come to writing the wrong is another wrong.

The nearest you can come to writing the wrong is T-H-E- -W-R-O-N-G.

I appreciate that you left the space as a character.

[WillowLuman]

The problem with having a government dish out extravagant punishment (like drawing-and-quartering) is that the people will know their government is the kind that draws-and-quarters people who piss them off. You lose some credibility when you point out your enemy's torture and exhibition of its opponents' remains, then turn around and do it yourself. Especially since it's not a legal punishment: Mexico (like most places) has set boundaries as to what you're not supposed to do to people, no matter what. For the government to ignore its own boundaries in such a high-profile way is to make those boundaries meaningless, and to open up the possibility of the blunt application of legally questionable violence to solve other problems.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

You lose some credibility when you point out your enemy's torture and exhibition of its opponents' remains, then turn around and do it yourself.

We lost that credibility a long time ago when we decided murdering random Middle Easterners with drones is applicable to anti-terror strategy. You say this as if there's some sort of moral high ground to strive for when dealing with Narco-Lords. I'd argue the threat of extreme violence is likely the only thing that does and will ever keep such organizations in check. Not every organized crime syndicate is as fragile as those of Boston/Chicago/New York. These organizations can, will, and are glad to murder random people and castrate those who speak out against their groups, and will never cede to authorities. You do not get human rights when your entire life was based on violating the human rights of those around you, in my humble opinion.

They're terrorist organizations by any stretch of imagination, except they're actually winning in the wars they take part in.

I'm a fringe minority on this issue, mind everyone. It should be clear by me advocating making of this man a blood eagle.

E: Holy grammar, batman