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[lumin]

I feel like I've never played Dwarf Fortress before with this new version even though I've built several forts in the old version.  So much has changed, it's like re-learning the whole thing.

Without the wiki close at-hand this game seems all but impossible to figure out what to do.  Besides all the new options, items, and structures to be built, the new z-axis alone exponentially increases the difficulty of playing.  My first few times through I just felt completely overwhelmed because my Dwarves were getting their butts handed to them by repeated monster attacks.

In the old version I was able to last at least through a couple seasons.  Now I can barely get through spring time before I've lost my fortress.  Now think of what happens to a brand-new player coming into this version.  I heard a few people complaining about how easy it has become since you can now bring along a lot more stuff, but I think this helps counterbalance the difficulty a little bit.

Until all the game mechanics can be re-written in the wiki, I think I'll have a hard time with this.  I don't think it's quite right that I need to study a wiki anyway, before I can even play Fortress Mode.

I don't know what you think, but after the bugs die down in this release, the next step ought to be a complete interface overhaul.  Sure, the keys and functions will change, but I think the whole thing needs a new, cleaner framework with mouse support and context-sensitive menus.  The new z-axis poses so many problems to the current key system.  I really believe that a new system can be designed without railroading future updates.

[Tormy]

wow I completly feel the same! I am still messed up with the new version..ah well lot of new stuff, so we must learn lot of things.

[Solara]

I think it must just depend on your starting location. If anything I've been finding it easier than the old version - there's no resource management involved in the beginning anymore, picks are so cheap, and I can sell the anvil for a ridiculous number of points and start with all the skills and equipment I could possibly want and enough food and booze to feed my dwarves for years. It takes me less than five minutes to get everyone safe underground and farming requires no work at all now.

Obviously the story's going to be different if you're on like, a glacier or volcano or something, but those are rarities and obviously it's your choice to seek them out and start there.

[nagromo]

Yeah; I find it easy compared to the old version.

Sure, some of the new options are complicated, and irrigation and water are very different from before. You don't need any of that to survive, though.

I have everything I need to survive on the Z level I started on. I have an outdoor farm plot (crazy easy to make), an indoor farm plot on sand that doesn't need irrigation, and I'm set to survive (as long as I avoid the Unicorns).

It took me a little while to figure out the basics of the z axis (moving through the z axis, stairs, and ramps), but now my fortress has a nice 3d layout with storage on the main floor, living areas above, and working areas below. I'm currently working on setting up some water/mechanics stuff.

[mickel]

Once I got the hang of the z levels I found it easier. Sure, it's gonna be a challenge to find out what some of these new things do, but hey... I may be at an advantage here since I never really managed to figure out how to survive in the previous version. I mean, I can't fail worse...  

[Fedor]

I'm loving the new version.  But I begin to suspect that I might be thinking differently had I gotten different start locations.

Difficulty is /definitely/ much more location-dependent now.  Get lucky (like I've been so far), and you'll be throwing away 500 excess points at startup, cranking out platinum and steel three months into the game, and seeing no attacks worth mentioning.  Get unlucky (like a lot of others have) and you won't even LAST three months!

I hope for better hints on danger level when choosing a site in coming releases.

[Core Xii]

I abandoned and restarted a dozen times, now I'm starting to get the hang of it. I already have rewalling and farming figured out, so I'm supposedly in the "safe zone" as I have food and shelter to survive and am free to experiment. Next up, mills, millstones and windmills! And I will probably need to figure how to mine on flat land.

[Jreengus]

pick a very easy map with good conditions and learn the new stuff there then move on to more difficult maps, i can at least play it using z axis etc having warmed up on an easy map and moved on to more difficult challenges

[Solara]

quote:Originally posted by Core Xii:
<STRONG>I abandoned and restarted a dozen times, now I'm starting to get the hang of it. I already have rewalling and farming figured out, so I'm supposedly in the "safe zone" as I have food and shelter to survive and am free to experiment. Next up, mills, millstones and windmills! And I will probably need to figure how to mine on flat land.</STRONG>

Good luck with the mills, I've built on about six different locations so far and they've all been a cake walk as far as food and shelter go, the typical DF death and destruction didn't set in until I started experimenting with rivers.

And, uh, about the mining thing, are you referring to just digging straight down? Because for that all you need is to designate a spot for a downwards staircase, then when it's carved switch to the level below and designate an upwards staircase directly beneath it.

[Alfador]

I think the fact that you can get 1500 starting points by selling off your anvil and one axe is...

...Toady's way of making it easier for us testers to explore and fool around with the alpha.

'Cause it's a bit early to worry about game balance issues when you're still implementing features. Heck, you can practically god-mode to put the engine through the wringer by editing the raws! Make your dwarves stronger than any other creature and faster than the computer they run on, and see just what kind of bizarre tortures you can do to the game world.

...Have I done that, you ask? Uh... no. Actually, I'm still working on understanding all there is to know about the game as it stands, rather than editing the raws this soon. >_>

[pasiniem]

What I feel like would be very good for new starting players would be some kind of tutorial to the new version.
Maybe built in the wiki? We just need someone who has lots of time and has familiarised himself with the new version  

[Nukeitall]

Many of the features are unexplained or vague at best, is my complaint. Given the early states that development is currently in however I find it difficult to complain.

Still fumbling around here personally, but my forts no longer go insane or starve again.

[Surma]

pasiniem, do you have a question about something specific?

It's easier to answer questions and put that in a FAQ than it is to write it out of hand.

Of course, there are a few questions everyone will have.. like "How do I get water wheels / windmills to work?", but that has been answered already on the wiki.  

[darknight]

Just my 2 cents, but I am loving the new version. Yes, it has a very steep learning curve. But DF has always had a steep learning curve, so that is nothing new.

And unlike many games, DF has a great helpful player base. If someone is having trouble with something, there are always others that are glad to help them. I have seen other game forums, where if you ask for help, they gun you down without mercy. Cases of flaming here stand out like a sore thumb, because they almost never happen here.

And lets face it, we dont play DF because we want a game thats easy. Any FPS would be child's play for us. Instead we want something that gives us a challenge. And nobody can say DF is not a challenge.

Sure, some things could be improved, to make certain things less annoying, like the user interface. But I am sure things will be improved in time. Or, as Toady has pointed out, it is still an alpha.

[Saktoth]

The only thing i had trouble with was figuring out how to connect stairs. After that, it was easy.

Too easy. Water rarely kills my dwarves anymore (In fact i haphazardly let them fall into full channels and just dig them back out again), you can farm the same plot indefinitely all year round, my dwarves wrestled a fireman to death and he was the only opposition i faced when i drain a volcano. All the old problems i used to face are overcome with a lot less difficulty now. I even invaded a goblin fortress and took the fight back to them- which was surprisingly easy.