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Author Topic: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Conical Difficulties  (Read 71799 times)

WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2014, 11:27:16 pm »

Try getting out to push first, though. You can always go back in once you have 1% pack fuel left, which is far more than enough.
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BFEL

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2014, 12:40:21 am »

[overlarge insulting Dragonball image]
Seriously GWG, I just got the updated KSP and Mission Controller and I'm doing fine despite having a budget. Get with the (SPACE!) program buddy.
Dude, I started playing KSP like last week. Cut me some slack.
Oh...er, sorry. Thought you had this for awhile.

As an apology, here's the simple way to get back Jeb: Put a "Stayputnik" drone on top of the crew capsule, don't put any crew in it and just launch the thing unmanned up to Jeb.
Then have him hop in the capsule and return.

Also for general design: keep your stuff simple, ESPECIALLY in these early stages. You can get to the Mun with just a liquid engine, a buncha fuel and a few rings of boosters, so don't overdesign things.

For navigation: 90 degree angles. Just...90 degree angles.

Orbit: Boost up till apoapsis is above 70000 meters and turn right 90 degrees to get to orbit easy.

Landing: PERIAPSE MARKER IS YOUR FRIEND
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WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2014, 02:16:11 am »

We don't have stayputnik :(
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2014, 08:49:59 am »

Try getting out to push first, though. You can always go back in once you have 1% pack fuel left, which is far more than enough.
I don't have a clue how to maneuver with the rocket pack. That should definitely be a tutorial, though.

Anyways. Counting up votes...general consensus seems to be to send up another rocket, and try to rescue Jeb.
Tech Votes: One for Electrics, Flight Control, and whatever leads to multi-kerbal pods; three for General Construction. I think the consensus is obvious.

Beginning update. We're coming for ya, Jeb!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2014, 11:04:01 am »


The miracle of another freaking sunrise.

Journal of Jebediah Kerman, Kerbonaut Lost in Space
They tell me they're working on ways to get me down as soon as they can. I don't believe them. I'm here in the most advanced rocket we've ever made, and I could barely get here. Not much chance of anything else being able to make it to orbit AND reach me.

I've been keeping busy.


Science is pretty fun. At first.

I've also taken to watching the surroundings. It's pretty awe-inspiring, but when you orbit every thirty-one minutes and forty-five seconds it gets old to watch the sun rise over Kerbin's curved horizon again, to watch the Mun and Minimus rise and fall. Even watching Ike, so mysterious and far away, gets old.


Why can we see Ike but not Duna?

Even watching Kerbin crawl past gets dull after a couple orbits...worse, because it reminds me of just how close I am to home. I look out, it's like I can touch those mountains, those seas, those fields. I reach out...and I touch only glass. I am so close, yet...so very, very far.


Maybe he is poetic.




We begin building the SciMax Mk 5+. It has another liquid-fuel engine and four big solid boosters.


Tip #3 in the KSSP Engineering Handbook: "If at first you don't succeed, stick some more engines on it and try again!" This tip has been known to cause a roughly even number of successes and explosions, each about 53% of the time, with a sad 12% not being either.

We start worrying about how to fit more command pods on there, but our boys in R&D have a plan. They research General Construction, giving us tri-couplers. We also get new research options.
Spoiler: Choices (click to show/hide)
Out of these, Bob notes that Fuel Systems should allow efficient new rockets, Bill says aerodynamics should help us not crash, Jeb suggests that we stop worrying about future science and come get him before he goes crazy, Archibald recommends Advanced Contstruction because it's what Jeb would have wanted. (He also gives the opinion that we're too late for Jeb not to go crazy, an ambiguous comment that was ignored.)

Anyways. Tri-couplers.


"Sir, I can't get it to work! The tri-couplers only come in upside-down!"
"Kid, there's an obvious solution you're missing..."

"...turn everything else upside-down, so it matches!"

Yes, that is three command pods, oriented outwards, with an antenna on each. No, I did not think to delete the original pod and make the tri-coupler the First Part until I was done. Yes, I feel silly about that.


So. Bill is...convinced, shall we say, to fly the Mark 5+ to Jeb.


Bill Kerman, looking much as he always does when strapped into a moderately explosive vehicle.

With good reason, it seems.

...Okay, going back to the VAB so I can fix my mistake. You know, get the symmetry right. Made more difficult by not being able to make the Tri-Coupler the First Part...and let's add some launch stability enhancers...and don't forget extra parachutes...

Okay, maybe it looks silly, but just you wait until we save Jeb!

"Bill, you don't need to start your gravity turn just yet."
"AAAAAAAAAAHH!"


Okay, one more redesign. If the one with four big solid boosters doesn't work, we'll put off saving Jeb for now.


...That one didn't count.

Somehow, the solid fuel boosters are not igniting. It's not a stanging issue, that's set up right.


A brave rocket scientist prepares to begin experimentation on how to fix the boosters.

A number of struts are added, on the theory that the bottom stages are falling off. This appears to be correct, as the rocket takes off...straight up.


"We're taking off? Oh. Great."

"No, no, I'm...fine..."

"I don't wanna die..."

"Our Father, who Art in Kevin..."

"Wait, that's not right...oh no..."

Here, have a pretty picture.


The solid fuel boosters don't detach like they were supposed to--an error in construction? So it seems. Well, too late now.


"Wait, what? Guess Mom was right...I shoulda gone to church more often..."

An executive decision is made to discard that stage to drop the weight. Hopefully, we made the right choice. We certainly seem to be rising a lot faster.


"Oh man...the ground's really far below us..."

Eh, you can still see KSSC.


The gravity turn is a bit slower and a lot clumsier that I would have liked, perhaps because we were still on solid fuel at that point. Still, we manage to get an apoapsis above 80km, which is when I usually stop the initial burn.
We drift through air and space to the apoapsis.


"Wow..."

Maybe space isn't so bad..."


It's 106,000* kilometers to Jebediah, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of gum, it's dark, and we're wearing spacesuits. Hit it.
*Number made up, but it's probably not THAT far off.


I hate Kerbin Nazis.

I apparently screw up timing on the burn or something, because rather than coming into orbit we begin to circle past apoapsis to head for Kerbin.


Shut up Bill, imagine how Jeb feels!

One guess as to which direction we're going.


Remarkably, despite sliding back into atmosphere, I manage to pull our apoapsis out!


Pics, because even I'm not 100% sure how it happened. Well, aside from "I fired the rocket up".

Here's the whole arc....

...and here's why we're not going to try and get this baby into orbit...

...and HERE is a big dot where Ike is...

...and HERE is Bill, happy for some reason.

Probably the view.


Oh, look, we're almost hitting Kerbin.

Nothing fell off when the parachutes deployed and it looks like we're going to land on the coast.

You're almost home, Bill...


So. A rough landing on some hills far away from KSSC. Bill technically died from the pod falling over on its side, crushing the one command pod someone was in, so I reverted. This is probably why NASA tries to land its astronauts in the ocean and not in mountains.

So. We failed that time, so...what now?
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BigD145

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Failure Again
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2014, 11:19:24 am »

Inline decouplers. 6 of them. Replace the small boosters with equivalently sized liquid fuel and rockets. Put the six inlines on the bottom of those and put the huge solid boosters attached to the decouplers. Add space tape and ignore the launch towers. It's light enough so it'll be fine. Maybe change out the centerstack engine for the smaller, lower thrust, higher isp engine.

         --<:=======<
3-----(
         --<:=======<

Don't worry about fuel lines and asparagus yet. If you do replace the center engine, stage it after the six outer liquid engines.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 11:26:05 am by BigD145 »
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WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Failure Again
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2014, 04:54:13 pm »

...Did we get any science from that flight? It would have been worth a lot.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: At Least We're In Orbit
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2014, 05:32:50 pm »

So. A rough landing on some hills far away from KSSC. Bill technically died from the pod falling over on its side, crushing the one command pod someone was in, so I reverted. This is probably why NASA tries to land its astronauts in the ocean and not in mountains.
So, no. I decided that the life of one of the orange-suited, named, developed kerbonauts was worth however much science a sub-orbital rescue flight would have been worth.
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WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Failure Again
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2014, 06:35:46 pm »

Oh, missed that part.

Get some practice with the jetpack, it will make this whole thing a lot simpler. Plus, you'd need to use it anyway to get Jeb from one pod to another.
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BFEL

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Failure Again
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2014, 08:14:55 pm »

You know theres a button that does symmetry for you right? Under the parts menu.

Also JETPACK CONTROLS: "R" to activate jetpack, "WASD" for cardinal directions, shift for thrust upward, ctrl for thrust downward. Is easy.

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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Failure Again
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2014, 08:21:00 pm »


Nighttime at home. I can almost see the lights on at KSC.

Journal of Jebediah Kerman, Kerbonaut Lost in Space

They tried to save me. Sent Bill up. Why Bill? He's the worst guy for the job. So scared, terrified of everything. Fun to screw with, not who I want directing my rescue effort. I don't think I'm going home. Might as well make the best of this tin can.


Sometimes, I like to turn the rocket out to space and pretend that I'm blasting out away from everything, to some distant planet or star, that my isolation has meaning.

I should turn off the SAS. It's a constant drain of power, just a trickle but it's there. Hell, not like it's going to change much, or like what it changes will matter. I'm at almost 90% charge, but that last nine-tenths is going to go down the drain before I know it. Once that's gone, the air filtration's going down and I have to try and get myself to keep in equilibrium, or else I'll either starve or suffocate. Or maybe I'll try and do both. Not pleasant...anyways, let's keep this thing's lights and communications on as long as possible.

I've been here hours.
(Editor's note: Yes, he technically hasn't, but it's better for the narrative this way.) My limbs are getting stiff. Sometimes I pop out for a couple minutes EVA.


A bit stressful...

Lets me stretch my legs, makes the cockpit seem positively pleasant. If I let go and can't get back, the best scenario is that I fall to Kerbin and burn up.

Looking at Mun, Minmus, it makes me realize just how small we really are. I've been at almost a hundred kilometers away from the surface,
away from every living kerbal, and yet the Mun and Minmus, let alone the other planets, are eternally out of reach. I see those there, staring with contempt at my puny spacecraft, not even a hundreth as far from the embrace of Kerbin's life-giving air as I, reminding me of how small we really are, how little we really can do. Someday, will we reach the Mun, Minmus, Eve and Duna, Laythe, the stars? Maybe. Right now, staring into the black abyss...I doubt it. This, getting a tin can with a poor solitary kerbal trapped inside, may be the best we'll ever manage.
But if we do manage it...I want to be the first. I'm already the first in space, the first in orbit, but can I be more? First to set foot on a natural satellite? First to settle an alien world? One of the first to leave the Sun behind forever, searching for a new home in the stars? What more could I achieve?

Not damn much. I'm stuck in a fucking tin can in the sky.


((Writing these is a bit tough, but it's fun. And worth it, I think.))



Jebediah is in space, Bill is in the hospital after injuries sustained in the landing. Future pilots are advised to find some way to land in flat and/or soft areas.

We begin redesigning the Mark Five-Plus to something...not much like it was. In fact, it was enough for people to approve a name change: The SciMax Mark 6. It has a complete redesign of the lower stages, proposed by Engineer Bigdee Kerman (no relationship to the Councilor that he admits to), plus some landing legs that should help in case of rough landing. Bob Kerman, taking the wheel of a space vessel for the first time, is up for the challenge. We hope.

After a worrisome moment of lag and boosters sounding like they were turning on one at a time, the Mark Six takes off, straight as an arrow but less wobbly.


We told you not to look at the instrument panel, Bob...

"KHWH, Kerhovah, Kallah, if you're up there...I know I never believed in any of your forms, but if you're listening--"
"Bob, the regulations manual tells you not to do that. It's there under the lightning safety section."

An unrelated picture of something coming up over the horizon.


A hair under six kilometers altitude, we drop the empty solid boosters and engage the upper liquid-fuel engines. Before we get very far through those, the gravity turn is done. It's a bit tricky, but it is. That stage runs out at 37,500 meters or so, halfway to orbital altitudes, leaving one low-power but efficient stage to get us up. Our apoapsis was already over 100 kilometers, though, so not really needed yet. Good to know, though.
For some reason, we're about to go in an orbit with an inclination solidly 90 degrees off from Jeb's, who has an equatorial orbit. We don't know why, but fixing it now isn't in the question--we need to get to orbit before we have time to waste on complex maneuver-noding!
Not that we have much faith that we'll make it...

Click here to see a screenshot of how the pooch is screwed, because the lightshot website isn't responding.
As you would be able to see, orbit is not Bob's strong suit. He's more of a theoretical pilot than an experimental.
"Hey! I heard that!"
...Whoops.


Bob tries an angled recovery, a technique that almost worked for Bill. Sadly, perhaps due to the weaker engine, the burn only slows the descent rather than turning it into ascent and potential orbit.


After recovery, it was determined that, in a colossally low-probability accident, fuel mist was somehow being sprayed into Bob's air intake, causing a variety of issues, with most thankfully being curable once he returned. It was deemed an Act of Kod, until someone pointed out that the way engine exhaust was ran would always end up with SOME sprayed into the cockpit. It's remarkable none wound up affecting a pilot until now, really.

At the order of Ground Control, Bob angled his rocket down and...well, he was ordered to fire his rockets so he would land in the ocean, but he actually wound up separating his stage.


Seen here silhouetted against the night sky.

Seen here ON FIRE OH KOD!


"AAAAA--oh look the Mun--AAAAAAA..."

Ready for landing.[/i]

And so, Bob splashes down, with some valuable scientific data about the upper atmosphere, space, and the effects of inhaling hydrocarbon mist.

The last was found, but not represented. Because reasons.

So, with our three veterans recovering from blunt trauma, recovering from rocket fuel inhalation, and the guy we want to rescue, we only have one kerbal able to do the job.



"Archibald Kerman?"
"Hm?"
"Well, we're here to tell you about what you'll be doing."
"What?"
"Well, you've heard about Jeb? About Bill and Bob?"
"...Yes..."
"Well, we need to get a rocket into orbit pronto, and we really need a pilot. You're the only one available with...well, any experience."
"I flew a rocket-powered deathtrap down a runway. I crashed."
"Everyone did. But you survived. And, well, corpses can't fly rockets."
"I suppose not. But...is it really not a possibility to send Bill or Bob? People who flew rockets?"
"Bill's still in a cast and Bob is still trying to recover from hallucinations and delusions. Although the notes he's taking on them will be interesting."
"Bob doesn't sound so bad."
"One of his delusions is about orbital krakens."
"Ah...well, you're not giving me much choice, are you?"
"No."
Archibald sighed, stared at a photo on his nightstand.
"I'm not sure I can survive again."
"You will. No one's died coming down from space."
"...No..."
Archibald sighed, and went to his kitchen.
"Archibald, the rocket's ready. You're needed."
"Two minutes."
Archibald puts a mug of water in a little device, a modified miniature rocket engine. He removes it, tosses some leaf-colored powder into the cup, and stirs, adding some sugar and milk after a moment. He blows on the beverage (?) to cool it, then drinks it in a single gulp.
"I'm ready, guv'na."



You know theres a button that does symmetry for you right? Under the parts menu.

Also JETPACK CONTROLS: "R" to activate jetpack, "WASD" for cardinal directions, shift for thrust upward, ctrl for thrust downward. Is easy.
I've been using it.
And jetpacks are like Diplomacy: The rules are easy to grasp, but if you don't have some practice you'll end up overshooting your ship and before you know it you've lost two home centers before 1902 is out.
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WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Barrel's Bottom
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2014, 09:27:11 pm »

I recommend practicing the jetpack with someone that isn't Jeb, to conserve his fuel.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Barrel's Bottom
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2014, 09:42:11 pm »

First, we need to get someone to space.

...

Or I could do it in my Sandbox save. Either or.
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WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Barrel's Bottom
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2014, 09:46:12 pm »

Sandbox might be a better place to practice stuff like that, yeah.
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BigD145

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Barrel's Bottom
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2014, 10:03:51 pm »

The orange jumpsuits give immortality to the wearer, so it's not such a big deal.

Now you have a setup to think about asparagus staging and seeing if/how it makes a difference. But first you need to get an equatorial orbit laid out. The polar orbit requires a lot more fuel. There's science up there, but recovering a kerbonaut is the current mission.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:14:20 pm by BigD145 »
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