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Author Topic: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Conical Difficulties  (Read 71171 times)

WillowLuman

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #390 on: March 24, 2014, 01:37:35 pm »

I still think you have more to get a hang of in the base game before messing with mods so much. I say we should try to leave Kerbin's SOI and return, for the massive science bonus this gives. Also, be sure to take a kerbal, those crew and EVA reports are very valuable.
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BFEL

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #391 on: March 24, 2014, 05:52:24 pm »

Clearly the name of that probe should be "Phallus I" given what it looked like on the Launchpad.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #392 on: March 24, 2014, 10:45:09 pm »

Clearly the name of that probe should be "Phallus I" given what it looked like on the Launchpad.
Your naming suggestion has been filed.


The idea is brought up by Chairman Hugo L. Kerman to make a really, really BIG rocket, send a kerbonaut out way, WAY past Kerbin for science. And perhaps some other reasons, suggests Chairman Befell Kerman.
Onto engineering. The math suggests that it will take over 5500 m/s of Δv to exit Kerbal gravity, and at least a thousand to get back. Therefore, Mission Control advises a minimum total Δv of several kilometers per second.
The final stage is, of course, designed first. With over 2,900 m/s of Δv, it should be more than capable of both ascent from Kerbin orbit and return.


Nice and small.

The next stage has over 3,500 m/s of Δv, nearly enough to let it reach LKO.


Much larger.

Three sets of solid rocket boosters add nearly 1.2 km/s of Δv, bringing the total up to somewhere between 6.5 and 7.7 km/s, depending on how much time is spent in atmosphere. The craft is named Starbound I, a lofty name.
To pilot this thing, we need a special kind of kerbonaut. He has to be courageous, but also intelligent enough to handle this kind of stuff, and of course fully expendable. None of the kerbonauts we have so far fit the bill, so we recruit one.


The first kerbal to leave the Kerbal sphere of influence! Probably. Hopefully.

We are ready to launch.


This is the point that I realize being able to send data back might be useful...

Thought 1: "I should have added struts." Thought 2: "Wait, I didn't trigger my action groups...intentionally..."

Alright, things are better now.


I discard the solid boosters around 6500 meters, noting that I definitely screwed up my action groups somehow.


Don't fret, Meleny, it's just that I'm going to be asking for a few more crew reports than intended.

The gravity turn is executed according to plan, and we burn until the apoapsis hits 83 kilometers.


"This is standard procedure, Meleny...are you sure you didn't cheat on your entrance exam?"

We prepare a maneuver node, taking us right out of the Kerbin System.


No time like the present!

Only 1372 m/s. Not bad.
Crew morale improves by the time we hit space.


Don't get cocky, the half-minute burn's a minute and a half away. (Well, 29 and 107 seconds, but eh.)

The rocket turns painfully slowly; I probably should have added more reaction wheels. Still, the turn is finished before anything can go wrong.
It occurs to me that most of the burn is going to be with the LV-909, so the burn is going to take 3-4 times as long as predicted. Give or take. So we'll need to start about 50 seconds before the node. I check the delta-velocity stats; we have 300 m/s left on this stage, leaving 1,200 for the next stage, so timewise that would be like burning 5,100 m/s on this stage, which is triple the length, so I should start 45 seconds ahead of time. Probably.


Okay, I'm done.

Our expectations are roughly fulfilled.


Space again provides pretty pictures. Of puny rockets.

Well, we've got three days and five hours to burn until we leave the SoI. We won't even fly past anything interesting, like a moon or satellite, before we get there.


Nothing to do except crew reports, EVA reports, and watching the world spin by.

Well, there's reporting.

"Home looks different from a million meters away..."

"Wow. Two million is even differenter."

The so-called Starbound Globe is the most famous picture ever taken of KErbin with a cell phone camera. It was taken when Meleny was 3,000 ki--3,001--3,002--really far from home.

Is the Mun larger? I can't tell. It probably shouldn't be, I'm only half as high as it is.

"Kerbin's so far away. What if something goes wrong and I can't fix it? What if I accidentally bump into the staging button? It's right next to my elbow..."

"Hi, Mun. Not quite as high as me, though...not anymore..."
Fun fact: While trying to take this shot, Lightshot decided to stop working. So we're about a hundred and some kilometers higher than the Mun now. Thanks a lot, Lightshot! I took the first one just as we were at the same altitude as the Mun!

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Three things. One: Lightshot is uploading pics again! Two: This is a pretty pretty picture. Three: I wish I was launching from the day side of the planet.

We're far from home, aren't we? And yet, another two and a half days until we're far enough...

One: Why is the rest of the orbit shown? Two: Why isn't Lightshot working again?

"You almost can't see anyone's home from here. And I still have a day to go."

"Not much has changed over the past day. I can see the Mun again, though. Ten minutes until escape..."

Wait, what?

Oh, much better.


We perform brief science and then set up a maneuver node. Embarrassingly, we forgot the experiments!
Ah, well. This alone has netter us over 140 Science, and with a couple other patches...


Not bad, for less than 191 m/s.

"Thirteen gigameters out. Thirteen and change. Giga-meters. That's far, but unlucky. I won't mind getting closer to Kerbin and not having that display of thirteens winking at me."


We overshoot a little, but that just brings the encounter eight hours closer.
Having spent over three days in space, Meleny spends less than one in interplanetary space. She doesn't even get to 100 Mm from Kerbin (probably). But that's enough, and it's good that she makes it back to Kerbin and KSC. Although Jeb's kinda jealous...
When we get to Kerbin influence, we get a pleasant surprise:


Huh.

Without any work, we're already dipping below seven megameters! (Which will herein be called "megs," because it's convenient.) Sadly, maneuver nodes are not working for some reason, so I have to go without, pointing retrograde and burning until the periapsis drops low. We take it down to zero, along the way adding a gravity assist to leave the Sphere and what seems to be a Munar or Minmal encounter leaving us in a slightly more circular orbit. It'll probably take about five days and change to get there. We'll still have half fuel then, though.
Meleny: "So, the fall down takes longer than the climb up? Man, space is weird..."
I consider trying to pass by the Mun or Minmus on the way down, but, well...hey, the maneuver nodes are working! After a Steam-UI-caused-burn (I hit shift-tab after Steam informed me of one RangerCado's activities), I have 1667 m/s of Δv and need 256 to get an encounter with Minmus (nice, exact, "round" numbers). I should be good.


"Sorry, Kerbin...this'll just take me a bit out of my way, I promise. P.S. Lightshot's working again, apparently. Mission Control was glad about that."

The node is cut off a little early, so I have to fiddle with maneuver nodes some more--enough that I'm not sure how I got the initial encounter. Eventually, I get there, for less than 45 m/s.


"...Are you sure it's out there?"

What's with that green light? Why does it turn on when time is accelerated, and why does it go red at some point?


We burn.


Our trajectory in a nutshell. Two hours by Minmus and a rather eccentric orbit with the periapsis near Minmus. Such is the cost of science.

I could get a closer encounter to Minmus, I guess. I mean, I have almost 1400 m/s of delta-velocity...Meleny has a day to contemplate this, and the fact that there's no way this would happen with a life-support mod enabled.
We reach Minmus influence.


These space-pictures aren't pretty! I demand pretty pictures!

Time for another maneuver node. This one will take 523 m/s, but it'll slingshot us out of Minmus's influence.


I hope 8748 kilometers is "near Minmus"...

"I still don't see any Minmus..."


I almost miss the window, fiddling with the command capsule! I check the map some, noting halfway through that if I killed it now, I'd gett a decent return trajectory.
The eventual periapsis is just over 8,000 meters above the surface.
We get science over Minmus!


Ooh...now, for an EVA report, which is boring, and--

Huh.


Electricity becomes an issue again. It has ran out before, but we currently have an issue...


The solar panels are on front of the spaceship.

...the solar panels are mostly shaded by the ship.
One is 35% exposed, but that's just over a quarter of a unit of energy flow. I'm not sure what that means, but it took a while to send the reports, but once it does I reorient the ship so it recharges faster. It charges quickly once I do so.


"I still can't see...wait, is that a glare-circle or a planet?"
"Moon, actually. That's Minmus."


I time-warp ahead in map mode to just before periapsis, expecting to not miss much and that seeing where periapsis is would help.


...Well...that's probably "near Minmus".

Not today, crew. We've spent enough time on KSP tonight.


We get more data, and more electricity woes. We apparently don't have enough on a near-full battery to transmit a whole thing, especially with weird interference we're getting. Note to self: The next version is getting batteries.
We get more science. (For the record, the Near Minmus distance seems to be 30 kilometers.)


No! Landing! Today!
...Seriously, what is it with the desert?


Well then. Having flown around some, and collected tons of science, let's head back eh?


I guess I could save here and continue tom--NO. I don't know how much more delta-v that will take and it'll take another 13 days just to reach apoapsis.

Thinking about this...I have plenty of spare fuel, and want to get Meleny home soon.


Only two days, instead of two weeks!

...What the hell?!?

Again? Did I match the period of this non-orbit to Minmus's or what?


Due to the proximity of Minmus and various lines to the maneuver node, I can't unselect it, which is a pain. Well, regardless, time for the long road to Kerbin.


And it even looks like a road! Kinda. And like we're pulled over on it.

With less than 25 units of liquid fuel (out of 900) left, we coast back to the beautiful blue orb.


"Mun! It's been so long since I've seen you!"

"I'm almost home!"

"What a lovely sunset..."


As I was taking that screenshot, we dropped alarmingly fast, into the lower atmosphere and suffering mach effects. Thankfully, the parachute half-deployed helped slow us down. I got to watch the maneuver-node thingy jump around amusingly, until it started just climbing, then falling right at the end. Apparently, it would take over 1.3 kilometers per second to execute the node now.
After nearly twelve days, Meleny is back. Shame I can't figure out how to open the flight log. Well, how much science did she get?


...

A total of 150.25 from the Sun and more than that from Minmus! Plus a little bit from near Kerbin. Meleny deserves an orange suit, and will get one if I can figure out how to. Probably involves save file editing.
Time for a rundown of what we can research:

Advanced Construction (90 Science): Struts, big decouplers, adaptors, and the smallest 2.5-meter fuel tank.
Advanced Electrics (160 Science): New batteries, better solar panels, and radiators intended for atmospheric use.
Advanced Exploration (160 Science): Barometer, and ladders.
Advanced Flight Control (90 Science): A new probe core, a new cockpit, a new winglet, a different reaction wheel. Not much of interest here that I can see.
Advanced Rocketry (45 Science): A few assorted rockets, including some from KW Rocketry. The last tech in its tech level.
Fuel Systems (90 Science): RCS, fuel lines, a small engine, and a new slower-burning solid rocket booster.
Landing (90 Science): Proper landing gear and micro landing struts.
Precision Engineering (160 Science): Small rockets, small fuel tanks, and a small decoupler.
Supersonic Flight (160 Science): Delta wings, non-radial air intakes, and bigger airplane parts.

Bill requests Landing, because it sounds pretty safe. Bob requests Advanced Exploration so we can barometerate various things. Archibald thinks that Advanced Rocketry and finishing that level of the tech tree sounds good. Meleny suggests a trip to the bathroom, and Jebediah just grumbles.
Director GreatWyrmGold notes that fuel lines would allow for advanced (and efficient) staging, that new rocket types seem to be expanding our capabilities well, and that we can get quite a number of techs thanks to that mission.


Well, that was fun. And we know we can go to Minmus, probably by a less circuitous route than we did. And I never did get a chance to watch Minmus slide in, or out. So. Minmus next?
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GiglameshDespair

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Advanced electrics
Landing
Fuel systems
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GreatWyrmGold

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As per Chairman Gilgamesh's suggestion, we are researching better batteries and solar panels, reaction control thrusters, landing gear, and a couple other things. Unfortunately, we are 12 Science short for Fuel Systems. Fortunately, we can make planes.


It's similar to a plane I've been building in another career game, but this one has landing gear and only one engine so it shouldn't crash as well.

Jeb flies the Kerbal Space Science Program's first science plane!


Oops.

Just not quite yet!
Five radial intakes later, we're ready. Probably.


So far, so good.

While taking this screenshot: "This probably isn't good."

Prior to rapidly taking this screenshot: "That definitely wasn't good."

Okay, we didn't lose that much. I can do this. I can do this.


Even with the missing winglet, it's pretty easy to fly. At least, I didn't feel like I was in much danger of crashing. It was a bit dull, though. Time warp also made it a bit harder to control.
Jebediah gets bored.


Something is wrong with this picture. Can you figure out what?

We fly towards the mountains. Wait, have we done this before? Ah well, let's head for that big one.


No, I didn't fly the whole flight upside-down. Just parts of it.

After eight minutes, we come into the Highlands. A minute later, we're in the mountains. I begin a descent, wishing I had installed a MechJeb thing on here so I'd know how high I am above the rocky death stuff. I would have taken some screenshots of me flying low above the mountains, but well...I was flying low above the mountains. Eventually, I spy my shadow. I turn off the engine (which was previously running at 1/3 throttle), tile backwards, and watch the shadow get closer and closer and closer I'm almost it's going away damn mountains being so--


...Oops.

--unsuitable for landing.

...




That's...well...um...

So. Um.

Let's prepare another project.


The Meleny Lander. Four independent science bays, over 3,000 m/s of Δv, and a slightly scary ladder.

We've designed this. I'll save it, post this, recharge, and let you consider where we should send it. Minmus? The Mun? Some distant planet? Two kilometers north of KSC?
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Aseaheru

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #395 on: March 25, 2014, 04:32:42 pm »

Why are the legs wonky?
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MarcAFK

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #396 on: March 25, 2014, 05:11:10 pm »

Whelp, My Jet keeps twisting during takeoff and firmly planting the left engine into the ground.
I'm going tio try putting rover wheels on the nacelles.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #397 on: March 25, 2014, 05:30:01 pm »

Why are the legs wonky?
I didn't use the Symmetry function. That way, I could use action groups on the individual Science Jr's and Mysterious Goo canisters.
If anyone else knows a good way to do this, let me know.
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BigD145

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #398 on: March 25, 2014, 08:33:17 pm »

The good way to do that is to put the legs on straight. :|
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #399 on: March 25, 2014, 09:45:45 pm »

Quote
As per Chairman Gilgamesh's suggestion

Quote
Chairman Gilgamesh's

Quote
Gilgamesh's

¬.¬

I'd recommend using symmetry for the legs.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #400 on: March 25, 2014, 09:56:01 pm »

To my knowledge, you can't put symmetrical legs on non-symmetrical Science Juniors without having problems.
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BigD145

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #401 on: March 25, 2014, 11:30:26 pm »

Use the skin ot an object to figure out where the symmetry would be if you used it. Rotate objects so some feature in the texture faces directly out from where it contacts the central stalk. You can also eyeball things and rotate the camera so parts line up. Are you building with 'snap' off?
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MarcAFK

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #402 on: March 26, 2014, 03:01:35 am »

With those ladders you better not send your lander anywhere with high gravity, because they'll need to jump to reach it. I suggest you shoot for the moon, so to speak. You're going to need a lot of orange to get that up though.
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tahujdt

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #403 on: March 26, 2014, 08:31:26 am »

You're going to need a lot of orange to get that up though.
We are not using Jebediah as fuel! Bill or Bob are just fine, though...
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Alright. Where Next?
« Reply #404 on: March 26, 2014, 09:33:01 am »

Use the skin ot an object to figure out where the symmetry would be if you used it. Rotate objects so some feature in the texture faces directly out from where it contacts the central stalk. You can also eyeball things and rotate the camera so parts line up. Are you building with 'snap' off?
I was eyeballing it as best as I could, and I was using angle snap.

With those ladders you better not send your lander anywhere with high gravity, because they'll need to jump to reach it.
Why would I be going to Eve?

You're going to need a lot of orange to get that up though.
We are not using Jebediah as fuel! Bill or Bob are just fine, though...
We don't have Jebediah.
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