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[Zorbeltuss]

I want a dying civilization, and have been modding it for a while or rather it has been on ice for a while, but recently I have inspiration again so I intend to retake my work on it, but there are a few questions that the community might have answers to so I won't have to retest it, however if the community doesn't have answers I will test and forward any knowledge I get.

I want kidnapping, but the goblin way of doing it threatens the limited age intended, so:
Can a civ be based around night trolls and spouse napping?
Can night trolls have four castes so I can have both male and female spouse nappers?
If the former questions are both true will they go out of spouse napping even if they might have the possibility of marrying within the civ?

I also want some Indiana Jones like adventure mode exploring of ruins, so:
Is there a way of making a species capable of becoming mummies while disallowing vampirism and necromancers without making a separate version of mummy making for the species?
I've seen some catacombs with traps, while most don't have that, is there a way to increase the chances of traps or maybe even guarantee it?

Also I've thought a lot about unique armor and weapons of  the civ so:
Can you make an over-armor needing to be attached to under-armor similar to how you attach waterskins and the like?
Can you make a ranged weapon accept two types of ammunition?
Can you make the ranged weapon that uses two different types of ammunition behave differently depending on the ammunition?

/Zorbeltuss

[Teneb]

I want a dying civilization,

Could you clarify what you mean by dying civilization?

I want kidnapping, but the goblin way of doing it threatens the limited age intended, so:
Can a civ be based around night trolls and spouse napping?
Can night trolls have four castes so I can have both male and female spouse nappers?
If the former questions are both true will they go out of spouse napping even if they might have the possibility of marrying within the civ?

Any kids abducted in worldgen are fully integrated into the civilization. I have no idea if they marry or not, and if they marry those outside their own race. If they do, they probably don't have babies.

You can't play as night troll per se, but there is nothing stopping you from making a creature called "night troll" with as many castes as you want and having it form civilizations. For kindapping mechanics in game, you'd make a reaction called "go out to kidnap RACE/victim/whatever" or whatever you want to call it, (optionally) have it transform whomever runs the interaction into an immobile no-eating/drinking/etc creature with no blood or organs called "troll out kidnapping" for X months, the reaction would produce an item called "kidnapped RACE/victim/whatever" or you could use DFHack to spawn it after the X months of transformation are done, then have another reaction called "convert victim" that would use DFHACK's spawnunit command to create a new creature of your civ.

I also want some Indiana Jones like adventure mode exploring of ruins, so:
Is there a way of making a species capable of becoming mummies while disallowing vampirism and necromancers without making a separate version of mummy making for the species?
I've seen some catacombs with traps, while most don't have that, is there a way to increase the chances of traps or maybe even guarantee it?

A creature can only become a mummy if they have CAN_SPEAK and do not have either the NOT_LIVING token or the SYN_CLASSes added when it becomes a werecreature/vampire/mummy. Vampires/werecreatures, on the other hand, require CAN_LEARN instead of CAN_SPEAK, along with everything else the mummy requires. You could, theoretically, create a creature with CAN_SPEAK but not CAN_LEARN. I don't know how the presence of INTELLIGENT would affect it, though. Keep in mind that INTELLIGENT and CAN_LEARN are needed for a creature to perform any labours, either in world-gen or regular play.

You can't affect sites themselves via modding.

I'm not that knowledgable on weapons/armour, so I can't be of much help there.

[Zorbeltuss]

I want a dying civilization,

Could you clarify what you mean by dying civilization?

As in the main species of the civilization having no possibility of producing offspring (read: no baby or child tag), meaning they die out in worldgen with their civilization, only leaving behind ruins and mummies.

I want kidnapping, but the goblin way of doing it threatens the limited age intended, so:
Can a civ be based around night trolls and spouse napping?
Can night trolls have four castes so I can have both male and female spouse nappers?
If the former questions are both true will they go out of spouse napping even if they might have the possibility of marrying within the civ?

Any kids abducted in worldgen are fully integrated into the civilization. I have no idea if they marry or not, and if they marry those outside their own race. If they do, they probably don't have babies.

You can't play as night troll per se, but there is nothing stopping you from making a creature called "night troll" with as many castes as you want and having it form civilizations. For kindapping mechanics in game, you'd make a reaction called "go out to kidnap RACE/victim/whatever" or whatever you want to call it, (optionally) have it transform whomever runs the interaction into an immobile no-eating/drinking/etc creature with no blood or organs called "troll out kidnapping" for X months, the reaction would produce an item called "kidnapped RACE/victim/whatever" or you could use DFHack to spawn it after the X months of transformation are done, then have another reaction called "convert victim" that would use DFHACK's spawnunit command to create a new creature of your civ.

I do not specifically want to call them night trolls but rather that they kidnap and turn their victims into their own race.
If playable is the problem, then these are not meant to be playable so that would avoid that problem, but if it is that the spouse converting isn't compatible with civilizations then I'll just have to leave out that idea about trying to kidnap to keep the blood fresh but failing. While it would be interesting to know if a child snatcher civ would let the snatched children marry and marry with their own would be interesting, just having kidnapped a few elves and dwarves would make the civ survive for way to long for my intentions.

I also want some Indiana Jones like adventure mode exploring of ruins, so:
Is there a way of making a species capable of becoming mummies while disallowing vampirism and necromancers without making a separate version of mummy making for the species?
I've seen some catacombs with traps, while most don't have that, is there a way to increase the chances of traps or maybe even guarantee it?

A creature can only become a mummy if they have CAN_SPEAK and do not have either the NOT_LIVING token or the SYN_CLASSes added when it becomes a werecreature/vampire/mummy. Vampires/werecreatures, on the other hand, require CAN_LEARN instead of CAN_SPEAK, along with everything else the mummy requires. You could, theoretically, create a creature with CAN_SPEAK but not CAN_LEARN. I don't know how the presence of INTELLIGENT would affect it, though. Keep in mind that INTELLIGENT and CAN_LEARN are needed for a creature to perform any labours, either in world-gen or regular play.

You can't affect sites themselves via modding.

Very interesting, it may or may not be useful depending on whether INTELLIGENT will supply its CAN_LEARN to any syndromes, but very interesting nontheless.

The sites is perhaps what determines this but the catacombs I've found with traps have been occupied by dwarven outlaws that were former members of dwarven civs so I suspect it might be a missing reaction in the human civs preventing them from trapping their interests.

Also thank you for the answers.

If all goes as intended with my circadian rhythm I will start testing any remaining questions if they are unanswered in about twelve hours.

/Zorbeltuss

[Demonic Gophers]

I want kidnapping, but the goblin way of doing it threatens the limited age intended, so:
Can a civ be based around night trolls and spouse napping?
Can night trolls have four castes so I can have both male and female spouse nappers?
If the former questions are both true will they go out of spouse napping even if they might have the possibility of marrying within the civ?

You can make a civ with creatures that have the tokens for spouse napping, and you can make night trolls with several castes, but I don't think either one will work properly.  In my testing with a night troll type civ, they didn't seem to actually go out and abduct people in world gen - they just had both castes generated from nowhere.  I haven't tried four-caste spouse nappers, but I have a vague memory of reading that the conversion mechanics don't track gender very well, and bugs are likely.  I haven't looked into this recently, though, and it may work better now than it did when I was last trying to work on it.

I also want some Indiana Jones like adventure mode exploring of ruins, so:
Is there a way of making a species capable of becoming mummies while disallowing vampirism and necromancers without making a separate version of mummy making for the species?
I've seen some catacombs with traps, while most don't have that, is there a way to increase the chances of traps or maybe even guarantee it?

I believe the entity tag BUILDS_OUTDOOR_TOMBS provides the ruins full of mummies.  If you give the entity no religion they'll have no gods to provide necromancy secrets and vampire curses.  That wouldn't stop people from becoming necromancers or vampires after leaving the civ, but it might stop the entity from generating any of its own.  You could prevent creatures from becoming necromancers by giving them no maximum age, but that wouldn't work out well for your dying civilization goal.

I don't know of any way to influence the traps.  It might make a difference if the civ doesn't have access to the Mechanic labors.

INTELLIGENT implies CAN_SPEAK and CAN_LEARN.  All the main civilized creatures that become vampires and necromancers and mummies in vanilla just have INTELLIGENT.

[Spiderking50]

You can create a dying civ that produces lots of mummies by including these three things in their entity:
3)Builds outdoor tombs
Trap component access (just copy and paste from dwarves for best/easiest results)
17) Baby snatching to replace the dying host race if you want the civ to continue

If you want a civ that transforms the people that it snatches what you could do is give the creature that composes the civ the special food tag and give them a food with a (permanent) transform effect. This special food should be edible to the people they snatch as well and then it would transform them into your main race. You'd have to have the food be prepared in custom workshop, which is kinda odd to set up if you're not familiar, but this would prevent other civs from making the stuff (unless you also gave them that workshop access) which is good.

The easiest way to prevent necromancers is to give a civ no religion. Another way is to just cull the death sphere to make it less likely that a civ will follow it. I forget how this is done, but its possible to give civs certain sphere affinity.

You can make custom weapons and armor, its rather easy if you just modify the vanilla raws. However, you cannot require a prerequisite under-armor to be worn under an armor. At least not to my knowledge.

[Zorbeltuss]

Thanks for all the answers, it has been illuminating.
I have begun work and will see what works, answers will be had in a couple of days most probably, some results already though. Shall I post my findings here or in a separate thread?

/Zorbeltuss

[Meph]

Best post them hear, helps other readers to know the context.

[Zorbeltuss]

So my current findings are this, if I have genders of SPOUSE_CONVERTER the civ will breed without hesitation, so I avoided that, and put the spouse converter as no gender, that seemed to work, somewhat at least, I've used pop ratio to make sure no spouses were being born, and after looking in the history, only the main creature were being created as the original population with no post population being created, while the converted spouses popped up from the first year forward, the converted spouses does have a few problems, they pop up without parents (which may be a bug, I will have to check converted spouses of the night troll variety), another important part is that they have always belonged to the relevant civ, which may mean that only the children of non species immigrants to the civ will be chosen, but lastly and most problematic, they continue to pop up after the spouse converters have died out, I will continue to work on this and maybe I'll have more results soon.

Edit: I have also set them to NOT_LIVING and they still make a few Necromancers

Edit2: After a while of moving back and forth, the pop ratio settings doesn't seem to work anymore.

Edit3: Pop ratio settings are weird, the smaller the map, the higher the chance that the game will adhere to it.

/Zorbeltuss

[Spiderking50]

What are your ratios? Because they will pop up occasionally even with a 100000 to 1 ratio, especially on large worlds. The converted spouses are also historical (I think).

Can you clarify the final problem with your civ and the converters. Your big post is quite muddled.

Edit 1: I don't think that stops them. Does your civ have religion still?

Edit 2: They should still work.

Edit 3: Its probably easier to observe in smaller maps because civs are closer so snatching is easier, also easier to sort through legends that way.

[Zorbeltuss]

What are your ratios? Because they will pop up occasionally even with a 100000 to 1 ratio, especially on large worlds. The converted spouses are also historical (I think).

The Ratios are 50 to 0 maybe that isn't why it's working but at small maps none of the ratio zero castes are created, at bigger maps they are created at the same ratio as the other castes.

Can you clarify the final problem with your civ and the converters. Your big post is quite muddled.

It isn't much of a problem still, just testing what works and what doesn't. I generally write quite muddled that is sadly how it always is but I'll try to clear it up, if anything still seems to be muddled point to the specific parts that I inadvertently make hard to understand.
First thing, if the castes that have SPOUSE_CONVERTER have gender they will breed with each other, not much surprise here really, it happens though so I've noted it down.
Having a single caste with SPOUSE_CONVERTER that still has gender will still breed with the appropriate caste of converted spouses but only create that appropriate caste, not much of a surprise here either.
Having a single caste of the SPOUSE_CONVERTER without gender, seems to convert spouses out of the children of immigrants from other civilizations. This was sort of a surprise, but what was more of a surprise was that when the caste with SPOUSE_CONVERTER died out, new children were converted.
This however is only how it seems to be as I can't check the parentage of any converted spouses, as they all have unknown parentage and their loyalty have always been with a civilization of the type I'm making.

/Zorbeltuss