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Total Members Voted: 7

[Culise]

Hmmm, did I get missed?  I didn't get a response to my action yet, and I'd (like to) think that I'd have found these gnolls unless I completely flubbed my roll.  Though, I can definitely appreciate the effect of luck. ^_^

[sjm9876]

I won't be available this evening btw. Apologies.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Uhm no.

I couldn't tell you until it happened. At which point I was a little busy.

Wait, huh?
Alright, what did Sanure tell you not to do? Exact words, please.

They don't have to agree with me at all I already went over this. And yes I'm a summoner..... having summons that have skills is kind of the point of the summoner. Your angry at me because I chose a character that you could also have chosen but didn't?

I think he's more annoyed at Sanure for designing a system that makes 3.5 D&D look balanced. When your party is a druid, a fighter, a monk, and...um...another fighter specializing in archery?

I noticed the patrol. I followed the patrol. I returned to the camp a little behind you guys. My summon could speak Gnollish as could Kyles. We spoke. Solairi threatened her and battle commences. Thats it.

Mind if I ask why Torban didn't let us know "Hey, there's a patrol coming"? Carl is going to be asking that IC once this is over, so...

Since none of you would ask me I did it myself. And  was obnoxious because I was annoyed. 9 of you 1 of me and I have to be the one to grow up when it was your own fault you didn't know the plan.

Yes, how horrible of us all to lack telepathy.

I'm strong because it's necessary the weakest Gnoll summoner is far stronger then I am.

Reminds me of discussions on how the only way to deal with powerful casters in a party...is to send powerful casters AT the party.
There are definite balance issues here.

a) There really isn't a limited amount of summons. If a luck roll rolls a 20 and a summoner made the roll. Grats you found a stone that wasn't detectable.

And this does not add to the problem, how?

b) THe summons seem very OP. They aren't. When I said the summons have weakness I wasn't kidding. The gnolls have natural physical protection, so 8 blades attack is getting a nerfed amount of damage dealt to them. Throw in the mages having prebuffed (which I didn't mention on purpose due to karma) the entire patrol, Magmefrets Megido flame will deal little amounts of damage as well. The entire patrol attacking was because of Karma reasons. That and threating children. How could you Solairi...

Hold on. The summons aren't powerful...because the gnolls are stronger. Also note the highlighted bit; you know who else uses physical attacks? DAMN NEAR EVERYONE. And when 8-blades on his own is more powerful than a primary combat character...

c) Solairi could kill them all in one attack. Given that You missed a chance to gain your second special attack. Granted I need to give everyone their first and second special attacks here in a moment since tutorial mode is off...

...

Also, the entire reason I added in the summons, was because of situations like this. Solairi and Torban are out numbered. The gnolls, without the summons, will win without strategy. THe Gnolls are meant to be hard. as in, you could actually die from them.

So, you make ONE character strong enough that he can mostly defeat the gnolls on her own.

Also, Work as a damn team. You are not in this for yourself. That will get your characters killed if you act alone. I may be kind, but my games do have a sense of reality in them. and they are partly grimdark. Not terribly evil grimdark, but I may make you feel the feels about a character getting his arms and legs cut off before he is brutally killed.

Well excuse me for not activating my nonexistent teamwork benefits. The rules don't include anything on teamwork, we're going to need to devise strategies all on our own--and there aren't many when the enemy outnumbers you.

He did say you missed your second big attack.
I look so strong because I've been using all my characters talents and taking advantage when situations presented themselves. I've been pointing out for days that your missing or overlooking things because of this trying to get you to see things without having to tell you bluntly.

You've all been so busy being annoyed at me you ignored me trying to help you catch up.

Stop blaming us for things that are your fault. Now go find those "pointers" or whatever and bring them up to the top. Quote and post. Unless you want to be shown as a liar.

[Alexandria]

I was not allowed to inform you of the patrol because it was an event we were not meant to know about. I got a lucky roll so I knew but was not allowed to tell you. Even if I'd been able to which I wasn't.

The first chance I had was when I reached the town at which point we had 24 hours before the patrols arrival so I deemed helping a little girl more important then 5 minutes of extra warning.
The attack came early due to Solairis terrorizing a child resulying in me moving to disable her and the GM dropped in the patrol to cut it off at which point I put priority on defending my friends over telling you lot since I ha already told Lucien and he'd seen me run off .
So I left filling you all in to him.

I couldn't inform you earlier because it would require a spell. If I used one enemy mages would have detected me.

There are lots of tactics for superior numbers. Off the top of my head. Scap creates a water wave with his newly learned magic and hits the Gnolls. Gilgamesh uses Gungnir on the water. Huge numbers of Gnolls take a double strength shock and many die. I have several dozen more using the team's skill in combination to make them stronger. A bit of teamwork and coordination goes a long way.

Also, you were offered combat training as I recall. You refused it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I was not allowed to inform you of the patrol because it was an event we were not meant to know about. I got a lucky roll so I knew but was not allowed to tell you.

I return to: What the hell, Sanure.

Even if I'd been able to which I wasn't.

...You really could have.

The first chance I had was when I reached the town at which point we had 24 hours before the patrols arrival so I deemed helping a little girl more important then 5 minutes of extra warning.
The attack came early due to Solairis terrorizing a child resulying in me moving to disable her and the GM dropped in the patrol to cut it off at which point I put priority on defending my friends over telling you lot since I ha already told Lucien and he'd seen me run off.
So I left filling you all in to him.

I retract my statement immediately above. This brings up the question of how the gnolls covered the 24 hours of distance in five minutes, to which I add my statement above that one.

There are lots of tactics for superior numbers. Off the top of my head. Scap creates a water wave with his newly learned magic and hits the Gnolls. Gilgamesh uses Gungnir on the water. Huge numbers of Gnolls take a double strength shock and many die.

That would take a hell of a lot of water, containing some kind of conductive solute. And it would probably spread, soak, and shock all of us too.

I have several dozen more using the team's skill in combination to make them stronger.

Then share it. STOP SAYING "Hey gaiz I know stuff I can tell you" WITHOUT ACTUALLY TELLING US THE STUFF.

Also, you were offered combat training as I recall. You refused it.

Carl was offered training with polearms. Not combat in general, polearms in specific.
Not only is he not a fucking combat character, if he does engage in combat a hammer would make more sense than a polearm.

[Alexandria]

I came up with them in response to your question and am typing on a phone. That message took 15 minutes. I'll list the ones I think are suitable when I get home tonight. Until then I would like to see what you can come up with. You'll have ideas I won't think of.

Oh and we 're right next to the ocean. Water ain't much of a problem but you could alter it removing the wave and spreading the water into a big puddle under the enemy like I did when preparing to fight Lucien. Shock the edge of the puddle and everyone in it fries. We stand outside the puddle and are safe.

Another example. Plant a big bomb in a small golem. Prepare the golem so it can move first next turn. Charge in. The enemy will have no idea until the boom allowing you to pick a large cluster and wipe it out in a way they wont expect.

Or me or scap freeze a group. Frozen targets take increased physical damage so hit with Bombardment and you have a super charged attack.


The only limit on these combos is your ability to imagine new combinations.

[Sanure]

In response to Culise: The gnoll patrol was not supposed to appear for a while. The screaming Gnoll child forced my hand :/

In response to GWG: The physical resistance is made to slashing damage, which happens to be what everyone attacking uses. Cymea, Carl, practically anyone with a weapon that doubles as blunt can hurt them. Or, I don't know, CARL COULD ENCHANT THEM. Still a thing. Alexandria didn't exactly get a good roll. Torban was also NOT meant to know about the patrol. And yes. Even carl can be part of Teamwork. He could be enchanting everyone's weapons. I DID give carl a good amount of gems to do so with.

In response to Alexandria: As i've said before. Any mention of plot, remains umentioned. Even in arguments. Most of the plot, unless I tell everyone, is meant to be a secret. I may set hooks here and there, such as the Gnoll child, but unless I outright tell everyone that 'Incoming Gnoll patrol, best prepare your weapons or you will end up dead' You probably will be ok, and only need someone to keep watch for patrols.

In response to everything else: This is one of the things the OOC is meant for. Strategy. Why haven't you all been doing that already?
The town Golem would have died a lot quicker...

Anyways, I won't be on for a week due to IRL stuff, so anything plot major will have to wait. Officially retconning the battle with the gnolls until then.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I came up with them in response to your question and am typing on a phone. That message took 15 minutes. I'll list the ones I think are suitable when I get home tonight. Until then I would like to see what you can come up with. You'll have ideas I won't think of.

I'm unaware of the mechanics of basically everything you guys have...and the lore behind magical stuff is fuzzy to nonexistent. I could probably come up with some ideas, but they might or might not work. Also, most ideas I have tend to be a bit overcomplicated/infrastructure-heavy, so it's a bit late to implement any now.

Oh and we 're right next to the ocean.

I don't think the hexes are that small, Alexandria.

Water ain't much of a problem but you could alter it removing the wave and spreading the water into a big puddle under the enemy like I did when preparing to fight Lucien. Shock the edge of the puddle and everyone in it fries. We stand outside the puddle and are safe.

Water doesn't spread like that, it goes everywhere. It would probably be about as easy to drown the gnolls, or to just knock them off their feet with all that water.

Another example. Plant a big bomb in a small golem. Prepare the golem so it can move first next turn. Charge in. The enemy will have no idea until the boom allowing you to pick a large cluster and wipe it out in a way they wont expect.

...How is this more effective than a bomb being thrown and then using the golem to do stuff? The bomb would be weakened by breaking the golem, which would incidentally NOT be ignored unless the gnolls are stupid enough to assume that this thing the enemy was tinkering with and sent into their midst is harmless.

The only limit on these combos is your ability to imagine new combinations.

And to ignore the logical issues behind them. And your knowledge of what the hell anything does and can do.

In response to Culise: The gnoll patrol was not supposed to appear for a while. The screaming Gnoll child forced my hand :/

How the hell did the gnolls get here so fast?

In response to GWG: The physical resistance is made to slashing damage, which happens to be what everyone attacking uses. Cymea, Carl, practically anyone with a weapon that doubles as blunt can hurt them.

So, you're saying that 8-blades and summons in general are weaker, because the gnolls are resistant to SOME kinds of weapons, which 8-blades and some of the group but not all summons use.

Or, I don't know, CARL COULD ENCHANT THEM. Still a thing.

In the middle of combat. With no gems on his person.
YES THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE.

Alexandria didn't exactly get a good roll. Torban was also NOT meant to know about the patrol.

Then why did you tell Alexandria? That was pointless and stupid.

In response to everything else: This is one of the things the OOC is meant for. Strategy. Why haven't you all been doing that already?
The town Golem would have died a lot quicker...

Because most people like not mixing IC and OOC?

The quality of GMing in this thing, combined with the zero balance and some of the other players...I'm thinking of just quitting this thing and being done with it. Especially since you seem to have been less than honest when you described this game as part-town-building. Technically, we're building a town, but we're close to a hundred pages in and we haven't even started building anything.

[Alexandria]

So point out your complicated ideas. Maybe someone else can simplify it or explain the mechanics of it.

For me or Scap water can spread like that. We use Elemental Manipulation. We can define how far the puddle spreads by controlling it with our magic. I've done it twice on a smaller scale with no problem.

Also with the golem it's a pre battle thing make it before the enemy arrives so all he sees is a golem. If they see a thrown bomb they'll scatter. If they see a weak golem charging into melee range they'll attack it putting them at ground 0 of the blast. A slight reduction of its power is still very powerful. If they scatter away from it odds are even with more power you'll catch less of them. A couple inches of wood or mud won't make a huge difference.


GWG. Gems ain't big put some in a pouch on your belt? You have plenty of time to do it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

For me or Scap water can spread like that. We use Elemental Manipulation. We can define how far the puddle spreads by controlling it with our magic. I've done it twice on a smaller scale with no problem.

Again: Why not simply drown/knock down the gnolls with waves?

Also with the golem it's a pre battle thing make it before the enemy arrives so all he sees is a golem.

Because that's such a nonthreatening thing.

If they see a thrown bomb they'll scatter.

Try having shorter fuses.

A slight reduction of its power is still very powerful. If they scatter away from it odds are even with more power you'll catch less of them. A couple inches of wood or mud won't make a huge difference.

Believe it or not, it actually does. There's a reason that taking cover is so effective.
Let me put it this way: Which is easier for a chunk of shrapnel to go through, the few feet of air a fleeing gnoll might be able to put between himself and the bomb, or a couple inches of a hard material capable of resisting multiple blows from weapons? And that's not getting into how golems are more useful than bombs; even leaving the bomb behind and sending in the golem to attack for more than one round would probably be more effective.

These ideas sound neat, but unless the GM specially buffs them to make them viable they aren't.

GWG. Gems ain't big put some in a pouch on your belt? You have plenty of time to do it.

Yes, because it makes so much sense for one guy to be carrying around all of the caravan's most valuable items, just in case he needs to do some battlefield enchantment.
I AM BEING SARCASTIC.

[Alexandria]

Note the word some...... Like 5-10. I didn't say all.

Knocking down is non lethal and a waste of mana. Drowning takes a minute or more assuming it can't swim and requires a constant huge stream of water to drown them in. Not to mention you to overpower every enemy mage for that entire length of time. Which turn wise is 5+ easy.

A big puddle is perfectly possible, easy to overlook and the shock will fry everything in the puddle in a few seconds not a few minutes and at lower cost in mana and do more damage because water amplifies the lightning.

As for the golem. It's easy enough to design but that was more of a joke suggestion

[GiglameshDespair]

Anyway, we've got to the building now, GWG.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Note the word some...... Like 5-10. I didn't say all.

My point still stands. And yeah, I would need to bring most to all of them if I didn't want to hamstring myself in the variety and/or power of enchantments I could bestow. Not that that's a terribly relevant point because the whole idea requires that I be enchanting crap mid-battle, which is of course insane.

Knocking down is non lethal and a waste of mana. Drowning takes a minute or more assuming it can't swim and requires a constant huge stream of water to drown them in. Not to mention you to overpower every enemy mage for that entire length of time. Which turn wise is 5+ easy.

You're underestimating the power of water, especially when you don't just go with one thing and have huge amounts of water to throw around. And no, knocking down people is NOT a waste of mana--it makes them pretty much unable to do anything, especially if you cover them with a layer of water. And drowning is a lot cheaper if you, say, let the water flow back into the sea.
And I kinda doubt that moving huge quantities of water a bit is significantly more mana than holding huge quantities of water in one unnatural configuration.

A big puddle is perfectly possible, easy to overlook...

"Hey! One of them summoned a giant amount of water! I bet they're not doing anything with it!"

and the shock will fry everything in the puddle in a few seconds not a few minutes and at lower cost in mana and do more damage because water amplifies the lightning.

I'm kinda doubting this...and if it really did work and amplify the lightning, rather than dispersing it as logic would dictate (if not causing it to be completely ineffective due to simply discharging through a small amount of water into the ground, like electricity does), it would fall back under "Sanure illogically boosting the effectuveness of teamwork actions".

As for the golem. It's easy enough to design but that was more of a joke suggestion

You really aren't reading my objections are you?

[Alexandria]

Again. This is before the battle.

Yes I am reading them. However I disagree. That happens sometimes. You know people don't share an identical opinion? You dislike the idea I like the idea. It happens. Let it go. I prefer trickery and tactics over brute force.


Elemental nature, every element has a strength and weakness. In this case. Water and Lighting compliment each other.

And your forgetting the enemy has mages. A big wave is nice and all but it's going to take the enemy mages about 1/3 of a second to spot you doing it and squash you while your maintaining the spell. You draw water into a puddle and it's done. You fire a lightning bolt and your done. It's a far faster tactic if nothing else.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Again. This is before the battle.

Since when?

Yes I am reading them. However I disagree. That happens sometimes. You know people don't share an identical opinion? You dislike the idea I like the idea. It happens. Let it go. I prefer trickery and tactics over brute force.

That's not the issue. I'm all for trickery over brute force, if your trickery is going to work. The issue is that your counter-argument in no way relates to any points I made.

Elemental nature, every element has a strength and weakness. In this case. Water and Lighting compliment each other.

Your point being? We're not combining the elements in a direct way, we're trying to force the laws of physics in ways they don't go by using magic that does NOTHING to those particular laws of physics.

And your forgetting the enemy has mages. A big wave is nice and all but it's going to take the enemy mages about 1/3 of a second to spot you doing it and squash you while your maintaining the spell. You draw water into a puddle and it's done. You fire a lightning bolt and your done. It's a far faster tactic if nothing else.

Not true. Drawing water up and letting it go creates a wave. Making a puddle like you're describing requires a constant flow of mana to prevent it from soaking us. Unless you think you can convince all the gnolls to stand in a depression so we can puddlize and shock them?