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[4maskwolf]

Sorry guys, can't post anything right now, will post this afternoon.  My apologies, I had to handle the BM first, because I had not done anything over there yet, and I ran out of time for this one.

And MOWE: I get excited when the game gets more interesting because more people play.

[darkpaladin109]

SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?

Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.

[mastahcheese]

MyOwnWorstEnemy

I'm wondering about wtf is up here. Only one kill last night with three people with the ability to kill. "It makes me wonder" for me is basically saying its suspicious to me. It makes me wonder what's up.

As for your question, I answered it a long time ago, Mastahcheese. Just how much attention are you paying my friend?

MyOwnWorstEnemy

Mastahcheese:

MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?

I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.

Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?

Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.

Funny how you try to put words in my mouth. In no spot did I say you failed to answer the question, I'm stating that you've repeatedly shown a lack of attentiveness. Attentiveness that would be used to hunt scum.

darkpaladin109

SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?

Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.

Not posting makes you more suspicious. You need to be active, not only to be less likely to be accused, as you seem to want, but also to be productive.

NQT
In Day 1, you would always respond with a question of your own when you answered a question. You've stopped doing that.
Are you trying to remain unnoticed? You've become reactive, rather than active. That's not like you, or how you were Day 1. Explain yourself.

[Silthuri]

Mastahcheese:

MyOwnWorstEnemy

I'm wondering about wtf is up here. Only one kill last night with three people with the ability to kill. "It makes me wonder" for me is basically saying its suspicious to me. It makes me wonder what's up.

As for your question, I answered it a long time ago, Mastahcheese. Just how much attention are you paying my friend?

MyOwnWorstEnemy

Mastahcheese:

MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?

I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.

Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?

Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.

Funny how you try to put words in my mouth. In no spot did I say you failed to answer the question, I'm stating that you've repeatedly shown a lack of attentiveness. Attentiveness that would be used to hunt scum.

... putting words in your mouth by misreading your question? I seriously thought you were calling me out on that question. But I'm being an idiot. Yes, I am just reading things with my name attached at present, and not very well I might add. Especially since your questions seem to be more extensive. My brain seems to pick out parts of the question that stand out and whilst I'm answering that, the other parts slip my mind (makes test-taking extremely hard for me).

You're right, mastahcheese. I haven't been paying much attention. My attention has been on school work lately. I guess trying to stay active with my attention elsewhere is a bad idea. In this, I'm failing to give the thread the attention it needs. Things are starting to slack off at present so I'll head on back and reread the thread meticulously.

Although I feel the need to say that you're not the first person to just leave me out of a post of questions. To me, that's not a scumtell on it's own. Maybe you just don't have anything for me to answer. Even if I had noticed this, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it anyway.

[4maskwolf]

4maskwolf

Okay, there are a few things I want to answer in this post.  The first is this: Yes, it is scumhunting.  He also did nothing scummy except vote for a scum.  He just had the misfortune of being the first to respond to your questions. [1] Also, I notice that you left MOWE out of the question list that time: care to explain?
I was not blindly following NQT: I put no stock whatsoever in his "method".  I don't think that post count means much, as clever scum could manipulate that as easily as everything else.  I already admitted that because it was day 1, I merely skimmed the last part of the conversation before making my assessment.  However, upon closer inspection and getting to an actual computer, I realized that Solymr had said precious little to warrant an attack like that and had answered the questions reasonably, by my metric.
The multi-post is called Posting while Tired. [2]  You are on the dwarf fortress forums, you know that I post things when I think of them, not caring about the number of posts in a row by me there are.

[1] The reason that MOWE was left out of the questions was because I had done so intentionally to see if they are actually paying attention. It's common knowledge that scum tend to pay less attention during games because they already know who is town, and don't have to look for clues. Why is it that you're pointing it out? Do you not feel that MOWE can answer for themselves?
[2] I don't pay much attention to people's posting habits, but this is a game where people watch for that sort of thing, as part of their methods of finding scum. Yeah, it is easy to manipulate, and it's also easy to try and rationalize it while you're doing it.

[1] I believe that MOWE is perfectly capable of speaking for herself.  I also don't see how not noticing the lack of a question directed at you indicates scumminess: care to explain how that particular instance makes sense?
[2] Yes, it is easy to manipulate it.  This is why I don't put much stock in that kind of thing.  Plus, on the post where he stated his observation, NQT said that he was taking into account the posting habits of the players, making it far harder to manipulate in any reasonable way.

Now, to asking questions:
NQT:  I was reading through one of your posts and found a couple of things of note:

MOWE
Quote from: MyOwnWorstEnemy on February 26, 2014, 10:05:13 pm
Quote from: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 08:11:31 pm
MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader,  unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?
I definitely think it was a collaboration. I think there was a reason behind what he did, probably involving drawing attention away from his scum partners. Although he did mention that he thought that one or two votes in RVS doesn't matter. I think eventually he just gave up after the votes turned out to be more significant than what he'd originally thought.
I've seen players just give up before and I always find it odd. It's possible it was a deliberate ploy (in that case, his ally would be Scientist or Wolf), but it's equally possible that we have a lurker scum-team that wasn't giving him any guidance (or he simply didn't take into account the guidance).

I'd like to hear how you came to this conclusion.  Particularly the Scientist one: scientist has hardly been active at all.

It's odd that they chose Darkstar. I've now entertaining two competing theories: either the Confederates thought he was least likely to be the Ugly, and so killed him and the Bad is one of the lurkers; or the remaining Confederates are scared of hitting the Ugly and so didn't take a shot and something Darkstar said made the Bad think he was a third-party. Alternatively, both teams could have targeted him and in that case we should pay more attention to his reads... unless that's what they wanted us to do.

That, my good sir, is WIFOM.  There was no reason to add this on to the end, the only possible reason to write this would be to make us doubt ourselves.
Unvote darkpaladin, vote NQT.  The things you say just aren't adding up.

[Tiruin]

Quickpost PFP and stuff

Mr. Cheese
In this post and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?

NQT

Tiruin— Also, when you're free and ready, would you be able to give us your reads?

After I write my version of Martin Luther's 'I have a Dream'. Which means yay free time in 6 hours later.
Basic gist?
> My reads back then were and are on the point of curiosity:
 - IG: Read curiously scummy due to something [his vote] "staying" yet upon context... it didn't make much work. He didn't say anything otherwise to forward that note on scientist--came off as weird for why it should stay [he didn't mention why]
        He missed my query here but addressed this one with the usual form of brevity that either denotes 'hey I'm busy' or whatever [hence why I HATE BREVITY]. So null.
  - MOWE: Upon skimmily rereading her notes, she's null, but I get a benevolent feel from her in the way of logic and stuff on that note. The same goes for the everyone else that aren't mentioned here yet are in intervals of: null, feeling benevolent and I didn't read much into them. Yeah, that last one also includes Caz because she's quite silly when she's under external influences.
  - 4mask: ...Null. Though I feel something weird about him--either there's a shift in playstyle that he's questioning and poking in a forward way or...mmph.
  - Newbies Solymyr/Darkpaladin: Former runs townie to me due to his methods and words mentioned D1-Can't remember exacts, just that said person pinged my reading-mind as a good sign, and the latter seriously needs to post more yet is null-townish.
Though he should stop editing his posts. 
  - ...Superblackcat is playing!? ..Erh. I didn't notice. >.> Yeah. This is how far back my memory goes.

All of these were skimmed.
4mask: Excuse if answered (but please link if it was) but in this post, why do I see specifics being thrown about in regard to who killed whom? Also what's the note on Mr. Cheese there about?
Do you believe Unionists have a certain behavior that they follow? Could you state it if so (and if not)?

Next, do note that we've 2 Survivor-types, The Good and the Ugly: Masons, Millers, and they are a one-shot Vig and a Bulletproofer, respectively. The Bad is a Godfather/Survivor/Mason-Lyncher...
Persus: How is the Bad an SK when I don't see anything in the OP regarding 'everyone else must DAIH'?

[Persus13]

He's an SK more in terms of ability and function than wincon (a survivor with a NK)

[Tiruin]

So...He can just kill off what he deems as the 'losing' team and that's when he's an SK in principle?
Not an SK in functionality and goal, purely?

[4maskwolf]

Quickpost PFP and stuff

Mr. Cheese
In this post and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?

NQT

Tiruin— Also, when you're free and ready, would you be able to give us your reads?

After I write my version of Martin Luther's 'I have a Dream'. Which means yay free time in 6 hours later.
Basic gist?
> My reads back then were and are on the point of curiosity:
 - IG: Read curiously scummy due to something [his vote] "staying" yet upon context... it didn't make much work. He didn't say anything otherwise to forward that note on scientist--came off as weird for why it should stay [he didn't mention why]
        He missed my query here but addressed this one with the usual form of brevity that either denotes 'hey I'm busy' or whatever [hence why I HATE BREVITY]. So null.
  - MOWE: Upon skimmily rereading her notes, she's null, but I get a benevolent feel from her in the way of logic and stuff on that note. The same goes for the everyone else that aren't mentioned here yet are in intervals of: null, feeling benevolent and I didn't read much into them. Yeah, that last one also includes Caz because she's quite silly when she's under external influences.
  - 4mask: ...Null. Though I feel something weird about him--either there's a shift in playstyle that he's questioning and poking in a forward way or...mmph.
  - Newbies Solymyr/Darkpaladin: Former runs townie to me due to his methods and words mentioned D1-Can't remember exacts, just that said person pinged my reading-mind as a good sign, and the latter seriously needs to post more yet is null-townish.
Though he should stop editing his posts. 
  - ...Superblackcat is playing!? ..Erh. I didn't notice. >.> Yeah. This is how far back my memory goes.

All of these were skimmed.
4mask: Excuse if answered (but please link if it was) but in this post, why do I see specifics being thrown about in regard to who killed whom? Also what's the note on Mr. Cheese there about?
Do you believe Unionists have a certain behavior that they follow? Could you state it if so (and if not)?

Next, do note that we've 2 Survivor-types, The Good and the Ugly: Masons, Millers, and they are a one-shot Vig and a Bulletproofer, respectively. The Bad is a Godfather/Survivor/Mason-Lyncher...
Persus: How is the Bad an SK when I don't see anything in the OP regarding 'everyone else must DAIH'?

To the first point, I was trying to analyze the extent of what I know.  I was applying Occam's Razor to the idea of one absent player versus two.  It was mostly a way of getting my thoughts organized and out there for others to analyze my points and determine the validity.
To the second point: The note on Mr. Cheese was to see if he would retaliate, mostly.  There was something fishy about him on day one, what with attacking Solymr.  I decided to see what I could get from him, and he responded with the same vigor he attacked Solymr with.  I'll post more in less than an hour, but I have to run.

[4maskwolf]

Okay, back.  So basically, I was checking for a response from MastahCheese, and he delivered.  He had made no cases against me the previous day and then opened fire when day 2 started.  Perhaps he's just trying to scumhunt, but I think that there is a little more going on here than that.  From what I can tell, it is the scumhunt equivalent of an OMGUS.

Mr. Cheese: Care to explain exactly what set you off at the beginning of day 2?  While you were active day one, the only person I remember you actively pursuing was Solymr, and that happened after there was a possibility that IG would be lynched.

[mastahcheese]

MyOwnWorstEnemy

... putting words in your mouth by misreading your question? I seriously thought you were calling me out on that question. But I'm being an idiot. Yes, I am just reading things with my name attached at present, and not very well I might add. Especially since your questions seem to be more extensive. My brain seems to pick out parts of the question that stand out and whilst I'm answering that, the other parts slip my mind (makes test-taking extremely hard for me).

You're right, mastahcheese. I haven't been paying much attention. My attention has been on school work lately. I guess trying to stay active with my attention elsewhere is a bad idea. In this, I'm failing to give the thread the attention it needs. Things are starting to slack off at present so I'll head on back and reread the thread meticulously.

Although I feel the need to say that you're not the first person to just leave me out of a post of questions. To me, that's not a scumtell on it's own. Maybe you just don't have anything for me to answer. Even if I had noticed this, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it anyway.

I don't even know what to say to this anymore. Apparently I'm just expecting too much out of people, and I can see that you're starting to get distressed by my demeanor. So I'll just wait before getting back to you. I'm sorry if I've upset you.

4maskwolf

[1] I believe that MOWE is perfectly capable of speaking for herself.  I also don't see how not noticing the lack of a question directed at you indicates scumminess: care to explain how that particular instance makes sense?

I left out the question to see if they would notice it, but it seems that I'm setting people to too high of a standard, or at least that's the feeling I'm getting right now, so I'm just going to drop it. The theory, as I'm fairly sure I've explained before, is that scum pay less attention then town.

Tiruin

Mr. Cheese
In this post and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?

MOWE seemed to believe that I was making an argument that she failed to answer a question, when she had. But that wasn't the argument I was making, the argument I was making was that she wasn't paying attention. The part where she's "putting words in my mouth" was where she showed a quote to show that she had, in fact, answered the question. But that wasn't even what the argument was about.

4maskwolf

Mr. Cheese: Care to explain exactly what set you off at the beginning of day 2?  While you were active day one, the only person I remember you actively pursuing was Solymr, and that happened after there was a possibility that IG would be lynched.

The reason I pursued Solymr was because I believed I had found something off about him, and wanted to know why.
The reason I've been going after people the way I have been is because, unlike some lucky bastard that can just scan people to get answers, I have jack. I have to work at it, and so I am. And I'm sorry, but maybe I've been making it slightly too far by getting annoyed at people failing to notice what I believe to be leads. Maybe I've been nothing but wrong about absolutely everybody, I don't know. But I'm trying. And I'm trying to get other people out here to hunt, as well, but now it feels like I'm going possibly even to the point of making people upset in RL, so I'm just going to stop for a minute, and let other people do stuff for a second, and come back when I'm calm.

[Tiruin]

SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?

Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.

Query for you: What is the reason you are posting?
Next: Why do you give in to fear?
Afterwards: Could you clarify your first sentence?
Also, 'Could have been town' is a pretty nice point. However what makes you so sure about that?

How is all that stressful?

[notquitethere]

Darkpaladin

Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.

As people have already pointed out, not posting is more suspicious than posting. Which of the other players do you find suspicious and why?

Cheese

In Day 1, you would always respond with a question of your own when you answered a question. You've stopped doing that.
Are you trying to remain unnoticed? You've become reactive, rather than active. That's not like you, or how you were Day 1. Explain yourself.

This is a reasonable question, but in this case misplaced. I've been waiting on the replies of several people, notably Caz and Scientist. I've got all of people's reads and excuses for not voting to compile and I'm in conversation with Tiruin who has her lynch vote on me. Hardly just reactive play, but admittedly the full force of my Day 2 proactivity hasn't fully blossomed to fruition. I'm part-way through trawling back and looking over interactions in light of the flips and that takes time.

I noticed that in your first post full of questions, you asked SuperBlackCat a question that he didn't answer and you never followed it up. It's easy to overlook things when you're addressing everyone but do you think his persistent absence is notable?

Wolf

NQT:  I was reading through one of your posts and found a couple of things of note:

It's possible it was a deliberate ploy (in that case, his ally would be Scientist or Wolf)...

I'd like to hear how you came to this conclusion.  Particularly the Scientist one: scientist has hardly been active at all.

If IG unvoting and getting himself lynched was a deliberate ploy, then he'd most likely be in league with either you (who got him lynched by unvoting Soly) or Scientist, who, if he'd kept his vote on, could have been an alternative lynch target. Most likely though, Scientist isn't a Confederate and IG unvoting was a ploy to make himself seem less guilty. His thought process was probably something like 'drat, people are voting me because of my weak case on Scientist. I know, I'll unvote scientist and shorten the day so it looks like I'm not worried about being lynched and I'm no longer making a bad case'. I think that's more likely than it being a deliberately orchestrated move with his scumbuddies.

It's odd that they chose Darkstar. I've now entertaining two competing theories: either the Confederates thought he was least likely to be the Ugly, and so killed him and the Bad is one of the lurkers; or the remaining Confederates are scared of hitting the Ugly and so didn't take a shot and something Darkstar said made the Bad think he was a third-party. Alternatively, both teams could have targeted him and in that case we should pay more attention to his reads... unless that's what they wanted us to do.

That, my good sir, is WIFOM.  There was no reason to add this on to the end, the only possible reason to write this would be to make us doubt ourselves.
Unvote darkpaladin, vote NQT.  The things you say just aren't adding up.

I was merely listing out the possibilities. I don't think you understand what 'WIFOM' really means. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything based on spurious logic, I was just indicating that as much as we'd like, there isn't too much to be gained from speculating on why they chose Darkstar to kill as the possible reasons are too large. Probably whoever chose Darkstar did so because they thought something he said made him sound like he was someone they wanted to kill, or they didn't think we could learn much from his death (but if that was the case, why not kill a lurker?). Or do you disagree? Was there a clear message to be gleaned from Darkstar's death?

Tiruin
I thank you for your reads. So the only person you found scummy yesterday was the person who is now revealed to be scum. Interesting. And who do you think is scummy today? If you still have a case against me, could you please spell it out? I believe I've comprehensible answered your points against me.

[Persus13]

4maskwolf-
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Tiruin, 4maskwolf
Caz- notquitethere
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109-
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-

Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, +!!scientist!!+, mastahcheese, MOWE, Solymr, Caz

3 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten

Day 2 has been extended to Monday March 3rd, and will end at 11:00 PM EST
1 Extension remaining

Scientist is up for being forcibly replaced.

[notquitethere]

Cheese

Actually, I'm just going to vote you, Solymr, because your answers to my questions have given me plenty more to suspect about you.

What exactly did you suspect at that time? I'm looking back and your spat with Soly doesn't reflect well on you. Take this, for instance:

And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.

But, as I pointed out, MOWE had already drawn attention to it. AND (I just noticed this!) IG said that in a 5 person bandwagon, he'd suspect the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. So you made sure to act quickly to get the second spot, right? A day 1 lynch on scum is pretty much guaranteed to give you the trust of others, possibly even through a long time over many days, enough time to win without him!
What are your thoughts on this, Solymr? Because so far, I'm not liking your answers one bit.

Here you're accusing Solymr of conspiring to bus IG. But how did you even know IG was scum at that point?