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[Xantalos]

No one cares anymore GWG. Shut it.

If no one cares, why do they keep providing counter-arguments?

To be blunt, you're fun to provoke since you make at least semi reasoned arguments rather than frothing at the ass.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Spoiler: Spoilered for those who don't want to read it (click to show/hide)

No one knows that, at least not until after the fact. All everyone knows at the time is that the duke is a bigoted jackass who will jump on anything in order to further the goals of Weaseltown. The fact that the one subject from the princesses' kingdom keeps saying that on purpose, means that it must be patently obvious to all the political guests as to why he won't shut up, because no one likes them because frugal merchant nonsense and he's clearly jockeying for some personal gain, which is later revealed to be assassination because he didn't want trade to stop. Assassination is a big deal and that's plenty reason for them to evict him. It would also likely heavily damage their image in the eyes of the other nations who were witness.

1. If no one knew until afterwards that the Duke tried to assassinate Elsa, you can't exactly use that as an excuse for them not reacting before. Which is what you did.
2. Again, how would they find out after-the-fact? Yes, the Duke's men ran ahead and tried to shoot Elsa. No, there wasn't anyone who could confirm anything unusual about this. Elsa never got a chance to find out that the others in the party wouldn't kill her, except Hans, and a 2:1 ratio of "tries to kill me:tries to capture me" isn't enough to make her suspect the two that tried to kill her. No one in the party was there for the two trying to kill Elsa--they showed up when Elsa was trying to kill them, which makes the one aggressive act they see (the soldier pinned to the wall trying to shoot Elsa) more or less justified. Running ahead wouldn't be suspicious, either--the sooner they could get to Elsa, the sooner (one hopes) that the giant snowman stops attacking them. (Not that crossbows were doing anything to it.) Oh, and how many people there do you think knew that the men were the Duke's? Certainly not Elsa, and since she's the only one who knew they tried to shoot first...Not that any of this matters, because no one who wasn't there is likely to get any information on the attack. Certainly not information that's similar enough to what actually happened to matter.

That's a good point. Obviously all the subjects of the kingdom would be biased towards their princess, but the political guests were still in attendance and were also all universally wowed and enjoying the trick, wouldn't you say?

What makes you say the political guests were still there? Kinda illogical. Once the roads and seas were clear...the coronation was over, the hostess was a scary ice witch, and a scene or two before the ice skating we see the Duke and other political guests getting onto their ships and leaving. Before hearing that trade was cut off, for the Duke. (Good timing.)

So people can't complain? And so you don't have to waste your time with justification? And so you can have complete artistic freedom? There's literally every reason to say so, even though it's pretty much already been established unless a Frozen 2 comes out anytime soon to effectively nail that in place.

On the other hand, it's my time I'm wasting, my artistic freedom I'm constraining, and anyways I've given the matter far too much thought already so I might as well use it all.
And people can complain. Complain away. If you care that it doesn't match with your vision of what happened during Frozen, I'm perfectly willing to defend my interpretation.

1 was clearly a jerk (Duke of Wesselton) but the other I can see being sympathized with.. Sort of? He kinda was being obviously manipulative, what with locking up the princess-sorceror and trying to marry her sister for obviously political reasons, which, while perhaps not unusual during medieval times IRL, definitely was considered disgusting and an act of deception in this universe. And usually an arranged marriage is, well, arranged, and involves mutual gain for the two sides with regards to relations and lineage. This was not the case here.

By the way, they weren't technically engaged. If this is back in the day then engagement requires ceremony for it to be formal.

Interesting fact. Of course, two things.
1. Anna and Hans told Elsa they were engaged. Either this requirement doesn't exist (which is an assumption I'd rather not make, for several reasons--chief among them being that it's a boring assumption), they performed the ceremony at some point (more or less the way Hans claimed they performed their marriage after Anna "died," and hence evidently an acceptable (though probably frowned-upon) way to performing the ceremony), or Anna somehow didn't know and Hans played off this knowledge, expecting that no one would fact-check this little detail ("So, how was the engagement ceremony?" "Wait, what?"). The first, as noted, is a boring assumption and has other issues; the last is out-of-character for Hans due to how easily the lie could fall apart and how little he gains; the second is plausible and interesting.

Also when did you become Animu girl?

...?

No one cares anymore GWG. Shut it.

If no one cares, why do they keep providing counter-arguments?

To be blunt, you're fun to provoke since you make at least semi reasoned arguments rather than frothing at the ass.

...Huh.

Anyways. I had an interesting dream last night, which I think helps explain Elsa's lack of diplomatic ability.

Spoiler: Summary and Explanation (click to show/hide)

Somehow, I was talking with Elsa at some point following the events of the movie. I dunno how I got there, or why. It's a dream.
Anyways, I pointed out the issues I've noted with her foreign policy and whatnot, trying to warn her of incoming war. She admitted that she wasn't very good at this. She should have, in an ideal world, been trained in how to do this, learned the relationships between nobles, listened to her parents run the country and later their explanations on why they did what they did, and so on before she had to take the throne. Instead, her late childhood was largely consumed by trying to control her powers, and she wound up taking the throne decades before anyone planned. The past three years, she tried to keep the kingdom running, but she focused on what she understood best--domestic policy. She also, at one point, admitted that she knew how a contry was supposed to run, but not how to run it.

This has two interesting properties. One, it more or less makes sense. Two, it helps explain the screwups that largely lead to this mess. The Duke is an unlikeable magic-hating miser--why are we trading with him? The Prince did wrong--he should be punished. Stuff like that. The world should work like that, but...well...the Duke is a major, long-standing trade partner of Arendell, and one can only imagine how cutting trade affects relations with other nobles and Arendell's economy, while the Prince's wrongs have no proof going for them save Elsa's word. The world doesn't work like that.

Just thought I'd share.

Anyways. Since most folks seem to want to skip ahead, we'll do that. Later today, I hope but cannot promise.

[kj1225]

That still doesn't explain why everyone is getting pissy at what's basically a one province minor.

The only thing that might prompt it is if the freezing DID happen to spread far enough to affect other countries which is unlikely.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Well, over the course of the movie (which, judging by the low amount of time spent anywhere but the capital and the time passed, meaning that they traveled quite a few hours to have the sun set and rise, covered an area several miles across), we never see any kind of evidence of green on the horizon. This means that the snow covered, at minimum, a rough circle over 20 miles across. And there's no reason to think that only the absolute minimum possible area got affected.
Overall...there's nothing that specifies that the winter only covered Arendell, and there are several indications that this at minimum could have affected a much, much larger area, and probably that there was reason to think it did (e.g, mages often causing multi-kingdom devastation). It makes more sense that the ocean-freezing, blizzard-of-the-millenium-summoning, etc Elsa affected the whole known world, especially since no one suggested just leaving the affected area. Even if she didn't, plopping down a couple-dozen-mile area of winter into the middle of summer is going to have effects on the outlying areas. Elsa is a sorceress of ice, not weather.


And "one-province minors" become one-province majors when they screw with economies, prevent marriages, and freeze the world.

[RangerCado]

In a way, Elsa caused a massive cold snap over an incredibly large area. At the edges of this area she created, the cold would likely be pressing into the area outside its range, causing ice to form, and any clouds above to start making snow. This effect then just gets multiplied over and over.

[kj1225]

I will point out most of the movie takes place in either the woods, the already frozen mountains or ground zero. So there is no reason to believe that it affected the entire world just like there is no reason to think it affected the some twenty miles around Arendelle.

[RangerCado]

Except for the one shot as she runs of the whole sea freezing.

[kj1225]

Again, that's at ground zero.

[RangerCado]

Yet goes off into the distance for miles.

[kj1225]

It freezes the bay. That's about one, maybe two miles around.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I will point out most of the movie takes place in either the woods, the already frozen mountains or ground zero. So there is no reason to believe that it affected the entire world just like there is no reason to think it affected the some twenty miles around Arendelle.

The woods and mountains were pretty far from Ground Zero. Moreover, the problem isn't just that the mountains were frozen--everywhere you could see from the mountains was frozen.

And...yeah, Cado elaborated part of the thing pretty well. Elsa freezes stuff, cold fronts pop up, etc. Cold spreads. It doesn't take a foot of snow to screw with crops and such, although it certainly makes it more definite.

And, above all...the movie never even implies that it's a local disaster. The fact that the Duke is concerned about freezing to death pretty much states that no, they can't leave the affected area and go elsewhere. Why can't they leave, when they can go to the North Mountain, where the snow is worst? Why can Anna's horse brave the snow, but the inhabitants of and visitors to Arendell can't escape the blizzard that way? The simplest answer is that there's nowhere to go to.

[kj1225]

They couldn't leave because their fucking boats were stuck. If you remember the woods are pretty much right outside the city, and high mountains are normally pretty frikken frozen without help from magic.

[WillowLuman]

They couldn't leave because their fucking boats were stuck. If you remember the woods are pretty much right outside the city, and high mountains are normally pretty frikken frozen without help from magic.

This

I would tend to agree that while there's no direct statement that it's local only, there's also as little evidence for it being global. Plus, Arendale is an entire kingdom. We don't actually know where its borders are, so we might not even see them in the movie.

[GreatWyrmGold]

They couldn't leave because their fucking boats were stuck. If you remember the woods are pretty much right outside the city, and high mountains are normally pretty frikken frozen without help from magic.

Again: Anna could leave, so why not them? Even if they had to walk, that shouldn't have been an issue. Hiking beats freezing to death any day of the year.

I would tend to agree that while there's no direct statement that it's local only, there's also as little evidence for it being global.

The implication was that it was. And besides, if it was local, why did no one leave?

Plus, Arendale is an entire kingdom. We don't actually know where its borders are, so we might not even see them in the movie.

The capital is pretty small. It's probably less France or Norway and more Iceland, at best.

[WillowLuman]

Arendele might be an island kingdom, like England or Iceland, and if their ships were frozen, they would have no way off the island. And everyone seemed to arrive by ship. But again, little evidence one way or the other.