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[syvarris]

...I was thinking the rounds would be smaller overall without needing propellent, but that's a good illustration of me underestimating sizes here(I dunno how I thought soda can-sized rounds could reasonably fit 200 in a box). Ok, standard would be whatever amount that can fit in a box of reasonable size, preferably as close to 50 rounds as possible. Also, what the heck is that in the picture, some sort of squad-portable 40mm cannon?(looks baddass btw)

Still going to need ammo prices and overall weapon costs, as well as whether I can get this prototyped.

((Those rounds are mostly without propellent, compared to a rifle round.  It's also a much lighter projectile than a comparable (hah) bullet, because it's an explosive.  And it's very low velocity- only 240 m/s out of those mk19s.

Your bullet, especially if it's based on an upsized gauss rifle, is probably larger than those, cartride and all.  Bullets are not spheres.

Anyways, to answer your question, those are mk19 automatic grenade launchers.  Not cannons.  I see no possible reason to give a squad a portable automatic weapon which fires forty millimeter bullets.  Seriously, even if they're going up against a tank, it would be cheaper, lighter, faster, and more effective to give a carl gustav to every soldier.))

[Unholy_Pariah]

Yep... my calculations...completely wrong...

I always thought bullet caliber was length.

That doesn't really change much if the projectile is a sphere though.

Ummm it does if i used 20x10 cylinder instead of a 20x20 cylinder or 20mm sphere, its only like 1/4 of the actual volume.

[NAV]

More Rapier testing. Sorry PW.
1. Effects on the human body. Does the vibrating make it do any serious damage, more than just a small hole?
2. Effectiveness vs different targets. Including minimum length required to pierce the squishy bits.(Mk1, mk3, robobody, synthflesh, civic defenders, battlesuit, and a block of steel.)
3. Combat tests
Run some duels between someone with a monorazor, and someone with a same length rapier. Who generally comes out on top?
Try testing a squad of soldiers armed with gauss rifles with 20cm bayonets vs a squad armed with gauss rifles and monorazors. Close range urban combat. who wins?
Is it better than a same length monorazor against full synthflesh? against a battlesuit?

[Unholy_Pariah]

Okay so using a 20mm sphere means my piledrivers output actually ranges from 3-53 Tons of force instead of capping out at 7.

Thats... a pretty big difference id say.

[Dorsidwarf]

Via carefree welding and cutting of RPG rounds, adapt 1/16 mininukes to fire from a multipurpose tube with folding legs for emergency direct-fire use.

Calculate token cost.


Edit: don't know if I made it clear but the idea here is a mortar which you can also point at the enemy if needed. Ignore that if it seems dumb.

[Parisbre56]

Isn't that essentially what a gauss cannon is? Maybe with a few additions like variable power settings and better targeting systems?
Or do you want the projectiles to be rocket propelled instead of gauss propelled?

[Dorsidwarf]

Isn't that essentially what a gauss cannon is? Maybe with a few additions like variable power settings and better targeting systems?
Or do you want the projectiles to be rocket propelled instead of gauss propelled?

1) rocket propelled
2) Mortar for indirect fire
3) man-portable
4) cheap

[Nikitian]

((To think of it, couldn't Simus's grenade launcher (a mortar as well IIRC, already prototyped and well-tested) be used for that? Can't really remember its calibre... Oh, it's 50mm apparently. Hmmm.))

[tryrar]

Action edited

[piecewise]

Design a 20cm version for 3 tokens.

It sort of "sinks" through thicker stuff, taking a second or two of pressure to get in. But it pierces pretty well, even through milno and battle suit plate.

How thick is Milno plate? How thick is full battlesuit armor at the front?

I forget with milno plate, but Battle suit is thick enough to render it mostly useless, at least in most areas. The Torso  where the pilot is, for instance. But you could still  stab into the limbs and reach stuff inside them.

...I was thinking the rounds would be smaller overall without needing propellent, but that's a good illustration of me underestimating sizes here(I dunno how I thought soda can-sized rounds could reasonably fit 200 in a box). Ok, standard would be whatever amount that can fit in a box of reasonable size, preferably as close to 50 rounds as possible. Also, what the heck is that in the picture, some sort of squad-portable 40mm cannon?(looks baddass btw)

Still going to need ammo prices and overall weapon costs, as well as whether I can get this prototyped.

Edit:Run some tests for the people at hep so they don't need to ask for the data:

1) Baseline test of weapon against guy in mk 1

2) Test against robosod

3)Test against synthflesh sod

4) Test against a guy in a mk III and milnoplate

5)Full performance test against a battlesuit

6)Just for completeness, see if it can hurt a AOW at all

Finally, spawn a completed Jackhammer, and load up a full combat scenario: A couple squads and I(with the Jackhammer) in a war-torn city(lots of rubble, ruined buildings, and such) holding a hardened, fortified point blocking progress deeper into the city versus waves of increasingly difficult enemies, each wave containing at least one hard target of some description. The squads aiding me have a mix of weapons costing 10 or less credits, and some have exoskeletons with milnoplate. Ammo is assumed to be infinite for the purpose of the test, but time for swapping mags is still needed. (Since I want to run this manually, this can happen here or the On-ship thread, whichever is more convenient for you)

It shoots 40mm grenades.

Ammo price. I dunno. Weapon price. Expensive. Not sure. Something over 15. How much is a Lesho? Because it's that plus cooling systems and other stuff. So expensive. Ha, double meaning.

1-4 dead. It's a fucking lesho. It punches through tanks
5 damaging. Lots good damage
6 not as good but still not bad.


Take it to the on the ship thread. Probably better.

Ok, off button.
Design a 20cm version for 3 tokens.
Vr test to determine the best way of using this thing. How well can it cut? How well can it stab?
Can it get through battlesuit/milnoplate? Can it get through synthflesh?

Then send the design to Heph for prototyping if they like it. Then exit VR.

alrighty

Design a 20cm version for 3 tokens.

It sort of "sinks" through thicker stuff, taking a second or two of pressure to get in. But it pierces pretty well, even through milno and battle suit plate.

How thick is Milno plate? How thick is full battlesuit armor at the front?

Talked to simus about that. Dunno milno, probably not 7 inches. Battle suit is thick enough though.

More Rapier testing. Sorry PW.
1. Effects on the human body. Does the vibrating make it do any serious damage, more than just a small hole?
2. Effectiveness vs different targets. Including minimum length required to pierce the squishy bits.(Mk1, mk3, robobody, synthflesh, civic defenders, battlesuit, and a block of steel.)
3. Combat tests
Run some duels between someone with a monorazor, and someone with a same length rapier. Who generally comes out on top?
Try testing a squad of soldiers armed with gauss rifles with 20cm bayonets vs a squad armed with gauss rifles and monorazors. Close range urban combat. who wins?
Is it better than a same length monorazor against full synthflesh? against a battlesuit?

Yes. It does good damage
Against most targets the length is fine. MK1-3 are basically no length, robo body probably like 5 inches into the brain, civic defenders have no armor thickness really, battle suit is too think. Block of steel has no organs.

It's about even, with a slight advantage to the rapier because of reach.

This stays about even too, if only because everything is mostly the same. Monorazor or vibrating penetrator, as I will now and forever call it, it matters very little when the target is soft squishy man meat. Slashed or stabbed, it makes little difference; you're going to die.

Against synth and battlesuits though, it tends to work better, if only because of penetration.

Via carefree welding and cutting of RPG rounds, adapt 1/16 mininukes to fire from a multipurpose tube with folding legs for emergency direct-fire use.

Calculate token cost.


Edit: don't know if I made it clear but the idea here is a mortar which you can also point at the enemy if needed. Ignore that if it seems dumb.

For a tube? like 2-3 tokens. Seriously the launcher isn't going to be the main cost here.

[Dorsidwarf]

Yeah, that's why I asked about the cost of those gauss cannon ammo plus rocket plus fin.

[piecewise]

Yeah, that's why I asked about the cost of those gauss cannon ammo plus rocket plus fin.

Where?

Via carefree welding and cutting of RPG rounds, adapt 1/16 mininukes to fire from a multipurpose tube with folding legs for emergency direct-fire use.

Calculate token cost.


Edit: don't know if I made it clear but the idea here is a mortar which you can also point at the enemy if needed. Ignore that if it seems dumb.

I see nothing about gauss stuff

[Nikitian]

((He's talking about adapting the default HGC ammo: "16th kiloton nuclear tipped shells" ))

[tryrar]

Whoops, life happened, sorry! Anyways, A Lesho is 18 credits according to you, so 20 seems right to me, though I'm not sure what I think ammo should cost(2 credits a belt? It should have some cost, but normal ammo would just be a belt of 50 of a solid hunk of metal 40mm in diameter, so I shouldn't be outrageous.) Though, I get the feeling I won't get a prototype for this, since It is basically a Lesho with cooling and belt feed, but I can dream right?  . In any case, still send the weapon design to hep with the data I collected.

Anyways, cancel that combat test scenario, I had a better idea for a weapon I can make that I might actually be able to afford right now. Basically, a Heavy Grenade Launcher. Take a 90mm tube, add a few gauss coils and charging circuits,, a 6-shot revolver cylinder, a computerized sight/rangefinder, and a auto-stabilizer to decrease recoil.(Basically, I'm going for a drastically upsized Milkor MGL using gauss tech). The fuses are computer controlled and set, with settings from impact to proximity to VTF(Variable Timed Fuse). It includes a manual disarm and a manual override detonation button.

Test first to see if there's any problems, then do tests for each of the following ammo types:

First, standard high explosive. Spawn a group of 100 sods, all clustered in a circle with them about 5 meters from each other. Explode a round at the center of the cluster and note how big the explosion is and how many sods it kills. (of it kills all of them, widen the cluster by spawning 100 more sods 5 meters apart, and keep doing the test until some live)

Next, take the cluster round I designed for the Jackhammer(Explosion scatters many small submunitions), adapt it to this gun, and do the same test. How wide are the munitions scattered, and does the effect kill more or less sods overall?

Next, design a normal HEAT round(basically just a shaped charge focusing the blast forwards) and do the same test. The effective area should be much smaller, but how much? Then, spawn a battlesuit and assume a direct hit by the round. How effective is it in punching though/damaging a battlesuit's armor? How effective is it with a non-direct hit? Do a comparison with the normal HEAT round versus my Mjolnir round, and give me the pros and cons of both.

Now, an incendiary round using ClF₃. Do the sod test and see how wide the affected area is and how many sods I can hit with an airbursted shell. Then, see what happens when it hits a battlesuit. How long does it take to melt though the armor, or at least disable important systems?

Finally, spawn some robosods and sythflesh sods and repeat the tests with all the shells against them. Finalize the name as the Thor MGL, and obtain costs for the weapon and all shells. Send to Hep, and see if I can get this prototyped, or at least all the materials for it to build myself.

Edit: Also add a HESH demolition round. For the uninformed, HESH stands for High Explosive Squash Head, which basically means the round is designed to pancake at impact and smush it's plastic explosive into a large patty before exploding. It is pretty decent about taking out chunks in armor, but even better at blowing off large chunks of buildings.

One last thing I want to create is a door/wallbreacher demolition device I'd like to call the Doorknocker. Basically, it is a reinforced frame holding several shaped charges in the shape of a door large enough to let in the average guy in an exoskeleton, with spikes to hold it to the door/wall long enough to detonate. Hopefully, the frame would be reusable and allow the charges to be replaced. Run tests on doors and walls of various thicknesses and materials, from wood to reinforced concrete and metal, the give cost and prototyping possibility.

[NAV]

The cost of his vibrator...hmm...the cost of his penetrator....hmm...the cost of his weapon is mainly due to the fact that he's using an extremely expensive and robust meta material for the spike. Even in small amounts it is very expensive. You could probably make one cheaper (If less robust) via research into new materials, or via use of some of the samples that are coming when the missions end.  Basically, he made a combat knife out of diamond when tungsten carbide would probably do.

Based on this quote, it seems there is something wrong about the design. If it can be made out of weaker materials and still function, then it can be made thinner (less material, better cutting) and still function. In the first tinker post I said to use the thinnest possible rod that will remain rigid.

Hmmm. You have any limits on price here? Because I mean you could use Mythril (Blame the science section's Tolkien hardon for that one) and literally tank a nuke, but that stuff would cost you 30 token a plate.

I highly doubt a 1 meter long spiderweb thin needle (15 tokens) uses half as much material as a plate of armour (30 tokens), so either the armour is underpriced or the needle is overpriced.