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[Sean Mirrsen]

Idiot savant rhetoricians would be very odd indeed.

((It worked for the Ori... >_>))

[Parisbre56]

Back to my Terror Drone project:

Let's try two different approaches.
First one, is the Ant approach:
Make thousands of tiny bots. Nothing more than a small battery/generator, some tiny scout-eye like legs and a small receiver for remote control.
For offensive capabilities just make them able to bite things and electrocute them or swarm something and then kamikaze by short-circuiting their powersource (or detonating a small explosive if their powersource can't do that).
Release them in a medium sized UWM ship with orders to kill the crew. See what happens.
Since they have no ability to bypass obstacles, make it so that all doors are stuck open for some reason.

Do you want to have them run into any type of resistance? Because a one armed sod could take a ship with no one resisting.

Just what they'd find on a ship, like the ones we took over. Except for doors. Assume doors aren't locked and can't be locked and that the robots can push the buttons to open them. I would also like to remind you that it doesn't take much to electrocute someone to death:

As my electrical safety instructor said, "The reason we now have to teach the electrical safety course to all electricians at least twice per year is because some joe was bright enough to be the one person in the world who could figure out how to kill himself with a 9V battery."

Do this.

[Radio Controlled]

Aerial vehicles: you'd probably be split between UAV's for surveillance and recon and heavy aircraft for carpet bombing. No real use of fighters for the most part, since the UWM sure as hell doesn't have any big fat b52's to shoot down.

the UWM uses a lot of drop pods and drip ships, right? Would it be possible to build a fighter/gunship hybrid designed for shooting them down as droppods come down, then give fire support after they havr landed?

It might potentially be possible but making a sod charismatic is like making a bulldog into a gray hound: you're essentially flipping their type. And you get the possiblity of rebellion since they'd have to be at least somewhat smart in order to convince people of things. Idiot savant rhetoricians would be very odd indeed.

how extensive would these alterations be? What kind of input would you require from us, the players? And how loyal could we make these operatives through extensive indoctrination?

[piecewise]

Idiot savant rhetoricians would be very odd indeed.

((It worked for the Ori... >_>))

Who?

Back to my Terror Drone project:

Let's try two different approaches.
First one, is the Ant approach:
Make thousands of tiny bots. Nothing more than a small battery/generator, some tiny scout-eye like legs and a small receiver for remote control.
For offensive capabilities just make them able to bite things and electrocute them or swarm something and then kamikaze by short-circuiting their powersource (or detonating a small explosive if their powersource can't do that).
Release them in a medium sized UWM ship with orders to kill the crew. See what happens.
Since they have no ability to bypass obstacles, make it so that all doors are stuck open for some reason.

Do you want to have them run into any type of resistance? Because a one armed sod could take a ship with no one resisting.

Just what they'd find on a ship, like the ones we took over. Except for doors. Assume doors aren't locked and can't be locked and that the robots can push the buttons to open them. I would also like to remind you that it doesn't take much to electrocute someone to death:

As my electrical safety instructor said, "The reason we now have to teach the electrical safety course to all electricians at least twice per year is because some joe was bright enough to be the one person in the world who could figure out how to kill himself with a 9V battery."

Do this.

Ant bots work pretty well until they face any sort of armed resistance. They're not really sturdy enough to stand up to much, so defenders tend to just smash them with grenades or sweeps of lasers. If they're facing a single enemy they'll just swarm him but against several, organized defenders they're not able to make much headway.

Aerial vehicles: you'd probably be split between UAV's for surveillance and recon and heavy aircraft for carpet bombing. No real use of fighters for the most part, since the UWM sure as hell doesn't have any big fat b52's to shoot down.

the UWM uses a lot of drop pods and drip ships, right? Would it be possible to build a fighter/gunship hybrid designed for shooting them down as droppods come down, then give fire support after they havr landed?

It might potentially be possible but making a sod charismatic is like making a bulldog into a gray hound: you're essentially flipping their type. And you get the possiblity of rebellion since they'd have to be at least somewhat smart in order to convince people of things. Idiot savant rhetoricians would be very odd indeed.

how extensive would these alterations be? What kind of input would you require from us, the players? And how loyal could we make these operatives through extensive indoctrination?

Maybe, but those drop pods and ships are moving stupid fast and erratic. They're meant to dodge computer guided laser defense grids, after all. What you would probably end up with is more of a flying weapons platform then anything, since human controlled fighters won't do it.

It would require pretty much an entire brain rewrite; they'd have to be made much  quicker and more clever, as well as more charismatic and empathetic. The danger comes from the fact that they might empathize too much. You could tweak them to make them sociopaths who are capable of empathetic manipulation but not swayed by it. But then they might be unpredictable and self centered. You see the problem?

[Xantalos]

((See? Just mass produce me when I'm released.))

[Parisbre56]

It would require pretty much an entire brain rewrite; they'd have to be made much  quicker and more clever, as well as more charismatic and empathetic. The danger comes from the fact that they might empathize too much. You could tweak them to make them sociopaths who are capable of empathetic manipulation but not swayed by it. But then they might be unpredictable and self centered. You see the problem?

What does the UWM do to brainwash their soldiers into thinking suicide is preferable to defeat? Can't we use that?

Or maybe just implant the sods with memories of a family or something similar to give them a reason to fight for us?

Or maybe just make an army of clones using the generals as a template and improving on it?

Tinker post coming later.

[Radio Controlled]

((See? Just mass produce me when I'm released.))

((I'd prefer a reliable weapon system :v ))

What will we use our sods most for? Shipping to allies, npc's for operations based from the Sword?

Secondly, what roles will those sods mostly need to fill? Will there be things like garrisoning duties?

[piecewise]

It would require pretty much an entire brain rewrite; they'd have to be made much  quicker and more clever, as well as more charismatic and empathetic. The danger comes from the fact that they might empathize too much. You could tweak them to make them sociopaths who are capable of empathetic manipulation but not swayed by it. But then they might be unpredictable and self centered. You see the problem?

What does the UWM do to brainwash their soldiers into thinking suicide is preferable to defeat? Can't we use that?

Or maybe just implant the sods with memories of a family or something similar to give them a reason to fight for us?

Or maybe just make an army of clones using the generals as a template and improving on it?

Tinker post coming later.

They don't brainwash them. Sod brains are implicitly different from human ones. They lack the capacity to do many things, have greatly reduced free will, little in terms of self preservation, etc. Thats why making a orator out of a sod is such a big project. It's like making a wolf out of a sheep.

You could try, but they're gonna talk to each other, you know they will. And what happens when they figure it out, that they all have the same memories?

If you wanna try that, go for it. I assume you mean milno, miya and jim.

((See? Just mass produce me when I'm released.))

((I'd prefer a reliable weapon system :v ))

What will we use our sods most for? Shipping to allies, npc's for operations based from the Sword?

Secondly, what roles will those sods mostly need to fill? Will there be things like garrisoning duties?

Depends on what you and simus decide, honestly.

Again, depends on what you want to do with em.

[Parisbre56]

No, I meant how does the UWM brainwashe their human soldiers? Urban Executors, Arbiters of Peace, Shadow Walkers, Ghost Ships, etc. Can't we use that?

[Radio Controlled]

What will we use our sods most for? Shipping to allies, npc's for operations based from the Sword?
Secondly, what roles will those sods mostly need to fill? Will there be things like garrisoning duties?

Depends on what you and Simus decide, honestly.
Again, depends on what you want to do with em.

Well, you remember how we showed that tanks should still be a dependable weapon system in ER verse, but then found out they wouldn't have a whole lot of use due to the fact that big open battles (like Hep defense) for players don't work very well within ER mechanics, and thus we shouldn't put a big emphasis on them? And that vehicles such as that would mostly be used by allies?

Well, this is like that. I'm asking what kind of roles our sods will need to fill so we know what to grow. Of course, sods for 'own use' (such as sods produced to deal with the fleshmonster, or to help defend Hep) we can decide ourselves, but what would be most useful to our allies, and for deployments from the Sword? Lots of cheap organic sods that are easy to 'maintain' (no complex machinery or upkeep, just food and water), fewer more powerful sods (upgraded robobodies), a mix?

For example, I take it we won't need to train and deploy clownsods juggling grenades to entertain the populace of new ARM planets?

[piecewise]

No, I meant how does the UWM brainwashe their human soldiers? Urban Executors, Arbiters of Peace, Shadow Walkers, Ghost Ships, etc. Can't we use that?

Well arbiters have artificial brains, ghost ships are mostly mechanical now, and the rest mostly come from core worlds, and have a lifetime of indoctrination and propaganda behind them. And even they go rouge some times. The UWM doesn't use any special method, just good old fashion patriotism and xenophobia.

What will we use our sods most for? Shipping to allies, npc's for operations based from the Sword?
Secondly, what roles will those sods mostly need to fill? Will there be things like garrisoning duties?

Depends on what you and Simus decide, honestly.
Again, depends on what you want to do with em.

Well, you remember how we showed that tanks should still be a dependable weapon system in ER verse, but then found out they wouldn't have a whole lot of use due to the fact that big open battles (like Hep defense) for players don't work very well within ER mechanics, and thus we shouldn't put a big emphasis on them? And that vehicles such as that would mostly be used by allies?

Well, this is like that. I'm asking what kind of roles our sods will need to fill so we know what to grow. Of course, sods for 'own use' (such as sods produced to deal with the fleshmonster, or to help defend Hep) we can decide ourselves, but what would be most useful to our allies, and for deployments from the Sword? Lots of cheap organic sods that are easy to 'maintain' (no complex machinery or upkeep, just food and water), fewer more powerful sods (upgraded robobodies), a mix?

For example, I take it we won't need to train and deploy clownsods juggling grenades to entertain the populace of new ARM planets?

The robo-sods being developed on Heph right now are honestly probably the best. They're more complex then fleshy ones but statistically have better survival rates. Though that may not equate to better success rates. That still needs testing. Honestly, Sods really are designed for use with a competent general, so regardless of what type we send, we might be better off offering training.

A sod which could train the citizens as well as act alone would be best, but thats not really a sod, is it?

[Radio Controlled]

The robo-sods being developed on Heph right now are honestly probably the best. They're more complex then fleshy ones but statistically have better survival rates. Though that may not equate to better success rates. That still needs testing.

Why does the UWM not use robosods? Is it due to their 'momentum', or are there more legitimate reasons for it? Ask Steve if needed.

Start VR test. For starters, battle of Hephaustus. If we replace our sods with regular robosods, is there any difference? And if the UWM replaced theirs?

Honestly, Sods really are designed for use with a competent general, so regardless of what type we send, we might be better off offering training.

You mean, we train other players, or offer training to npc allies? If second, is that something we should automate as well, or something we do 'manually'?

A sod which could train the citizens as well as act alone would be best, but thats not really a sod, is it?

I dunno, but that sounds exactly like the kind of 'guerrilla sod' I described earlier, for which you outlined a few difficulties and which I'll get back to later I hope.

[Parisbre56]

@RC: Just do a clone army. You know you want to.

What do you mean ghost ships are mostly mechanical? Don't they use specially conditioned human brains? Or has spending so much time as a ghost ship turned those minds into something more like a computer?

Also, tinker project:
The Modular Ordinance Magnetic Accelerator Rifle (or Gauss Slingshot for short):
Use the gauss rifle as a template but make it a bit bigger than a gauss rifle.
It has the ability to link all of its coils, transforming them into a single coil.
Inside its barrel is a cradle made of ferromagnetic material, essentially a frame for things to be placed on.
The top of the rifle can open like a bolt action rifle, allowing things to be placed inside the cradle.

When the (now singular) coil is activated, the cradle will begin accelerating, pulled by the coil's magnetic field towards its middle. When it passes the middle, the cradle will start decelerating and will eventually go in reverse until it reaches its starting position. At that point the coil should deactivate so that the cradle will stop moving. Meanwhile, whatever the cradle was carrying should keep moving and exit the barrel, assuming it is not affected by the coil's magnetic field.

The Gauss Slingshot can also be switched to magnetic projectile mode, where the cradle remains locked in place and it functions as a normal gauss rifle

The Gauss Slingshot can optionally take a magazine, for when the user wants semi-auto or full-auto firing.

The Gauss Slingshot has a knob for setting the power, so that power can be lowered if one wants to lob a grenade instead of launching a mortar.

It is essentially a grenade launcher that can be used to launch almost anything. You could use it to throw rocks at your enemies or create a stakegun/spear fishing gun for example.

I'd draw it but I'm writing this from my phone. Hopefully, you'll understand what I mean. This might help: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun

[Toaster]

So a handheld version of my coilgun from Special People?

[piecewise]

The robo-sods being developed on Heph right now are honestly probably the best. They're more complex then fleshy ones but statistically have better survival rates. Though that may not equate to better success rates. That still needs testing.

Why does the UWM not use robosods? Is it due to their 'momentum', or are there more legitimate reasons for it? Ask Steve if needed.

Start VR test. For starters, battle of Hephaustus. If we replace our sods with regular robosods, is there any difference? And if the UWM replaced theirs?

Honestly, Sods really are designed for use with a competent general, so regardless of what type we send, we might be better off offering training.

You mean, we train other players, or offer training to npc allies? If second, is that something we should automate as well, or something we do 'manually'?

A sod which could train the citizens as well as act alone would be best, but thats not really a sod, is it?

I dunno, but that sounds exactly like the kind of 'guerrilla sod' I described earlier, for which you outlined a few difficulties and which I'll get back to later I hope.

The first one more then anything, plus they have the infrastructure needed to keep them alive and make as much as they need. They're so big and fat they can afford to do things in less efficient ways. Much like evolution, any act by a government that does not significantly reduce its ability to survive will more than likely just keep going.

Longer life span, in general, meaning you have more sods for longer. On Hephestus it's not much of a change, a bit better, but since their numbers were limited and they were fighting with you, it's a increase in efficiency of about 5-8%. On the other hand, the UWM, since they were all sods, do benefit a good deal from the change, since it makes them harder to kill, meaning they get more shots off at you.

You could automate training pretty easy. Hell, all you'd need to do is make up a good basic training vr program with someone teaching them the stuff and then produce it as both a VR program and a straight video for those without vr machines. Youtube trained insurgents, mofo. Of course, creating some sort of heavily adapted sod drill Sargent might be more effective, but would also be harder and harder to get where they need to go.

@RC: Just do a clone army. You know you want to.

What do you mean ghost ships are mostly mechanical? Don't they use specially conditioned human brains? Or has spending so much time as a ghost ship turned those minds into something more like a computer?

Also, tinker project:
The Modular Ordinance Magnetic Accelerator Rifle (or Gauss Slingshot for short):
Use the gauss rifle as a template but make it a bit bigger than a gauss rifle.
It has the ability to link all of its coils, transforming them into a single coil.
Inside its barrel is a cradle made of ferromagnetic material, essentially a frame for things to be placed on.
The top of the rifle can open like a bolt action rifle, allowing things to be placed inside the cradle.

When the (now singular) coil is activated, the cradle will begin accelerating, pulled by the coil's magnetic field towards its middle. When it passes the middle, the cradle will start decelerating and will eventually go in reverse until it reaches its starting position. At that point the coil should deactivate so that the cradle will stop moving. Meanwhile, whatever the cradle was carrying should keep moving and exit the barrel, assuming it is not affected by the coil's magnetic field.

The Gauss Slingshot can also be switched to magnetic projectile mode, where the cradle remains locked in place and it functions as a normal gauss rifle

The Gauss Slingshot can optionally take a magazine, for when the user wants semi-auto or full-auto firing.

The Gauss Slingshot has a knob for setting the power, so that power can be lowered if one wants to lob a grenade instead of launching a mortar.

It is essentially a grenade launcher that can be used to launch almost anything. You could use it to throw rocks at your enemies or create a stakegun/spear fishing gun for example.

I'd draw it but I'm writing this from my phone. Hopefully, you'll understand what I mean. This might help: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun

Mostly mechanical as in the central computer handles a lot of stuff; the consciousness of the ship is basically just there to fight. Things like designating targets, moving the ship under normal circumstances, etc are all automated or even remote controlled. And the programming they use with the subjects is often post hypnotic or subliminal, reenforced by conditioning and self-enforcing thoughts. It's quite complex and even then, it's not 100%. There were still a large number of people cut.

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ok, but this thing is gonna need to be pretty big for you to fit a grenade down the barrel.


Sounds alright from a theoretical standpoint, but there's one big problem I see: If you use anything that isn't rounded it's got a chance of damaging the barrel. Imagine a normal grenade, one like what  we have today, like this
pic
Now, imagine you stuff that in there and fire. Now, imagine that, as it came down the barrel, that upper part where the pin and handle are located, nosed down and scraped against the barrel and, because there were already scratches there or there was some sort of microcrack or something, it managed to bite in and catch. Now you're gonna have gauss gun force jamming that grenade through the barrel as it attempts to turn sideways. Best case scenario, barrel damage. Worst case, you are holding onto an electrified pipe bomb.