Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[syvarris]

Spoiler: SodTalk (click to show/hide)

IIRC, the dex bonus of MKIIIs comes from the small manuevering rockets.  They draw from the same tank as the main rockets, but you could probably shrink the tanks and remove the main rockets to cut down on price

About the infantry, I have two suggestions.

First, something I said awhile ago, is that we should give all sods MKI suits at the least.  I guess the robobody ones are getting stripped down MKIIIs, so they'll be pretty obviously different, but you can still give one or the other to synthflesh sods.  Simus has shown that a regular-sized synthflesh body retains it's good stats, so putting them in MKs would make them stand out less.  If you mix them with the cannon fodder at the same time, it becomes difficult to prioritize targets- the only defining characteristic is their weapon.

Not to mention, giving them MK suits lets us have a wonderfully detailed view of the battlefield.


Next thing: this is more personal preference, but I seriously recommend we mix a few designated marksmen into the general squads.  They don't have to be improved, just have a precision weapon and a slight change to their programmed tactics.  Do I need to go into the benefits of this?

@Piecewise!

This might be overstepping some bounds, but can I get a weight estimate for a cutting laser?  I thought it was closer to an M2 HMG (~80 pounds), but it only requires a str of five to wield effectively, so I'm not sure.

Also, how advanced is generator miniaturization tech in ER?  I'd think it's pretty good, considering generators that can power lasers are light, but that might just be magic efficient lasers.   Could you get a 200 Horsepower nuclear generator that weighs twenty pounds?  Sixty?  A hundred?  Two hundred?

((Damn it GWG, how did you convince me this thing is a good idea by arguing against it?))

[smurfingtonthethird]

"Weevil" Light Tank
Armour: On par with Battlesuit
Weapons: Heavy gauss cannon as main turret system, and a coaxial rapid-fire rocketgun for infantry suppression.
Movement: 2 composite tracks.
Cargo: Fully AI controlled.

Operation: This tank is designed for infantry suppression in the open, allowing supporting infantry move ahead.

Primary advantage: Fully automated. Excellent against light infantry.

Disadvantages: Not anti-vehicle.

Cost: Unknown.

[NAV]

Does the wrist mounted grappling hook have a motor to rewind the cord? A motor strong enough to lift about 300 pounds with decent speed? Also check the price.

Also try completely embedding a kinetic amp inside a sledgehammer. So that is is completely surrounded by metal. Swing the hammer and see what happens.

[Radio Controlled]

Can you help with deciding what to make it out of without using synth flesh?

I'm not sure you could even really get something like this with ER tech without synthflesh. I'd kinda advise to get a battlesuit variant (added to armory in wiki by the way) that suits your needs and working from there. Or at the very least, make it smaller, 6m is really big for a (realistic, synthflesh has spacemagic so not as big a problem) legged mech.

2. Synthflesh/Normalflesh hybrids. I have some ideas, but first I need to make sure this is possible and sane.

Yes you can, check the armory. If you can buy individual synthflesh limbs, you are already mixing those.

IIRC, the dex bonus of MKIIs comes from the small maneuvering rockets.  They draw from the same tank as the main rockets, but you could probably shrink the tanks and remove the main rockets to cut down on price

I dunno, which is why I asked PW if there were problems with this plan. Though fitting those small maneuvering rockets between the armor seems doable.

First, something I said awhile ago, is that we should give all sods MKI suits at the least.  I guess the robobody ones are getting stripped down MKIIIs, so they'll be pretty obviously different, but you can still give one or the other to synthflesh sods.  Simus has shown that a regular-sized synthflesh body retains it's good stats, so putting them in MKs would make them stand out less.  If you mix them with the cannon fodder at the same time, it becomes difficult to prioritize targets- the only defining characteristic is their weapon.

Synthflesh sods don't need suits, they have everything the MkI suits offer (and better) already. Robosods also wouldn't 'need' them. About not standing out as much... For certain missions, this could help, but in general it kinda seems superfluous. And I'm not sure if a MkI suit wouldn't restrict the mobility of a synthflesh body a bit. And robosods couldn't use their jump pods (integrated into their back).
And MkI's are free (for players) and cheap (in-universe), but if you start giving them to troopers that don't really need them on the scale of an interplanetary army, I'm guessing the cost would ramp us fast (difference between me lending you a tablespoon of sugar or a truckload).

And regular sods could certainly get MkI's, yeah, probably should've specified that. Though I'd personally only give them when we know they'll need them (like engagements on spaceships or companies facing lots of combat) instead of every one ever. Again, cutting costs. But that's probably the inner bean counter talking, I'd be willing to give a MkI to all genemod sods if we can afford it in the grand scheme of things (though one has to wonder why the UWM wouldn't do that themselves).

Not to mention, giving them MK suits lets us have a wonderfully detailed view of the battlefield.

Not a problem for robots or synthflesh, and giving a whole MkI suit to a genemod sod when you only need a few of its features seems wasteful. God I feel like an accountant.

Next thing: this is more personal preference, but I seriously recommend we mix a few designated marksmen into the general squads.  They don't have to be improved, just have a precision weapon and a slight change to their programmed tactics.

Well, a regular sod is already an incredible marksman. A reason I mixed laser rifles and gauss rifles in a normal squad was because gauss are crap for anything beyond close range, whereas laser rifles are less powerful but better range. But if you think a marksman in a regular squad is truly necessary, we could replace one of the grenadiers.

Do I need to go into the benefits of this?

Normally, no, but you know what? go for it. Surprise me 

[GreatWyrmGold]

((Damn it GWG, how did you convince me this thing is a good idea by arguing against it?))

I have no idea. Normally, I'd expect that to make you think that's a bad idea.
P.S. Hey!

[Tavik Toth]

Can you help with deciding what to make it out of without using synth flesh?

I'm not sure you could even really get something like this with ER tech without synthflesh. I'd kinda advise to get a battlesuit variant (added to armory in wiki by the way) that suits your needs and working from there. Or at the very least, make it smaller, 6m is really big for a (realistic, synthflesh has spacemagic so not as big a problem) legged mech.

2. Synthflesh/Normalflesh hybrids. I have some ideas, but first I need to make sure this is possible and sane.

Yes you can, check the armory. If you can buy individual synthflesh limbs, you are already mixing those.

IIRC, the dex bonus of MKIIs comes from the small maneuvering rockets.  They draw from the same tank as the main rockets, but you could probably shrink the tanks and remove the main rockets to cut down on price

I dunno, which is why I asked PW if there were problems with this plan. Though fitting those small maneuvering rockets between the armor seems doable.

First, something I said awhile ago, is that we should give all sods MKI suits at the least.  I guess the robobody ones are getting stripped down MKIIIs, so they'll be pretty obviously different, but you can still give one or the other to synthflesh sods.  Simus has shown that a regular-sized synthflesh body retains it's good stats, so putting them in MKs would make them stand out less.  If you mix them with the cannon fodder at the same time, it becomes difficult to prioritize targets- the only defining characteristic is their weapon.

Synthflesh sods don't need suits, they have everything the MkI suits offer (and better) already. Robosods also wouldn't 'need' them. About not standing out as much... For certain missions, this could help, but in general it kinda seems superfluous. And I'm not sure if a MkI suit wouldn't restrict the mobility of a synthflesh body a bit. And robosods couldn't use their jump pods (integrated into their back).
And MkI's are free (for players) and cheap (in-universe), but if you start giving them to troopers that don't really need them on the scale of an interplanetary army, I'm guessing the cost would ramp us fast (difference between me lending you a tablespoon of sugar or a truckload).

And regular sods could certainly get MkI's, yeah, probably should've specified that. Though I'd personally only give them when we know they'll need them (like engagements on spaceships or companies facing lots of combat) instead of every one ever. Again, cutting costs. But that's probably the inner bean counter talking, I'd be willing to give a MkI to all genemod sods if we can afford it in the grand scheme of things (though one has to wonder why the UWM wouldn't do that themselves).

Not to mention, giving them MK suits lets us have a wonderfully detailed view of the battlefield.

Not a problem for robots or synthflesh, and giving a whole MkI suit to a genemod sod when you only need a few of its features seems wasteful. God I feel like an accountant.

Next thing: this is more personal preference, but I seriously recommend we mix a few designated marksmen into the general squads.  They don't have to be improved, just have a precision weapon and a slight change to their programmed tactics.

Well, a regular sod is already an incredible marksman. A reason I mixed laser rifles and gauss rifles in a normal squad was because gauss are crap for anything beyond close range, whereas laser rifles are less powerful but better range. But if you think a marksman in a regular squad is truly necessary, we could replace one of the grenadiers.

Do I need to go into the benefits of this?

Normally, no, but you know what? go for it. Surprise me 

I'm trying to make something different from the battle suit. Not as bulky for one.

[Unholy_Pariah]

I want an infantry support tank that has a bigass shield on the front wide enough for 2 columns of sods to hide behind it on each side that is coated with laserproof crystal and contains powerful magnetic devices to deflect gauss rounds.

Also i have a tinker repository in my sig for completed designs so that piecewise doesnt have to rummage thtough the threads when he forgets the details of your invention which he inevitably will, so remember to add them.

[Radio Controlled]

I want an infantry support tank that has a bigass shield on the front wide enough for 2 columns of sods to hide behind it on each side that is coated with laserproof crystal and contains powerful magnetic devices to deflect gauss rounds.

Also i have a tinker repository in my sig for completed designs so that piecewise doesnt have to rummage thtough the threads when he forgets the details of your invention which he inevitably will, so remember to add them.

So a moving shield, basically? Cause a battlesuit with that shield the AM designed could do that.

Also, it might be better to centralize this kind of info on the wiki. In fact, do you object to having this copied into the armory section of the wiki? That way people won't have to search around for information.

[smurfingtonthethird]

"Shield" Armored Infantry Support Tank
Chassis: Unique. Trades main gun for large curved shield in front of the tank, fairly wide.
Armour: Shield: 4 layers of electromagnetic reactive armour and laserproof crystal (I should really combine the two). Hull: 1 layer of electromagnetic reactive armour and laserproof crystal.
Weapons: Turret mounted rapid fire rocket gun for infantry suppression
Movement: 2 composite tracks, heavy duty engine.
Cargo: Can hold weapons and ammo. Needs only a single driver and gunner. Shield capable of protecting supporting 2 supporting infantry columns from a 270 degree angle.

Operation: As a "turtle" and as heavy cover. "Turtling" allows the tank to draw enemy fire, whilst fire support moves in. The tank can also move forward, providing an advancing defensive bastion, at the price of being easier to flank.

Pros and Cons: Near invulnerable from frontal non-nuclear attacks, weak rear end. Expensive. Much better when used in wedge formation to provide more cover.

I want an infantry support tank that has a bigass shield on the front wide enough for 2 columns of sods to hide behind it on each side that is coated with laserproof crystal and contains powerful magnetic devices to deflect gauss rounds.

Also i have a tinker repository in my sig for completed designs so that piecewise doesnt have to rummage thtough the threads when he forgets the details of your invention which he inevitably will, so remember to add them.

Done. Totally buy me one.

[syvarris]

Sorry for terribad formatting.  Again, phone.  :\

@Synthflesh hybrids
Do note that synthflesh limbs need a titanium seperator from the flesh just like other prosthetics; it can't connect directly.


@Synth sods don't need mk suits
True, they gain very little.  But if you deploy them alongside regulars it makes them much harder to target preferentially.

It might be a little expensive, but I figured you were pulling out all the stops for elite synth troopers, and increasing one's survivability would be a priority.  Equipping a few extra base sods with MKI suits wouldn't be very expensive- don't we have stockpiles full of that stuff?

Also, nobody has ever directly tested if synthflesh bodies benefit from exoskeleton/MKIIIs.  I know that because it's something I've wanted to test since reading the OP, and have read pretty much every post since then, including tinkers.  There was a guy who fought synthflesh bodies wearing MKIII's at one point, but I don't think their rolls were shown.


You could give just a single sod per squad an MKI if you're really worried about bean counting.  Or even just the helmet, or a simple camera headband.  That would give a few video feeds, and still be really cheap.

Spoiler: @Sod marksmanship (click to show/hide)

Yeah, PW has said that they have basically perfect accuracy.  But then, when we've fought them... they haven't.  I distinctly remember when Miyamoto was assaulting the command tower, there were two people supporting him.  Auron and Anton I think?  Point is, they got in a shootout with several sods, and could peek out of cover and return fire without getting shot.  And bullets were hitting their cover/whizzing overhead.  Arguably they were a tad distracted by the Avatar swinging an I-beam through them, but there still should have been a few accurate shots.

Either they were set to a weird suppression mode, or they don't have the nigh-perfect accuracy described.

And since you're using laser weapons (I need to pay more attention) giving a specialized precision weapon isn't as necessary.  The important bit is to have a sod who chooses targets, and takes careful, accurate shots.  So that a guy can't peek out of cover five times and take quick potshits at the squad without catching a bullet.

Of course, if you can just make all the gauss armed sods switch to DM mode when they spot a target 300+m away that would work just as well.  Requires VR testing, I guess.


Why a DM is important...
Well, for most engagements they're less useful than a guy with an automatic or grenades, of course.  But if they can manuever to a position that's at a good range, and has sight over several enemies, they can take out a whole squad.

It is very difficult to spot a prone human at 600 meters.  If they use gauss weaponry, there's no muzzle flash or smoke, which are the primary methods of detecting snipers.  Lasers would draw a nice line if they have thermal optics, but they probably don't.  Even if they can spot him, if they don't have a marksman themselves then it's difficult to return fire.

And that's the second reason.  If you don't have any ranged specialists, then a single sniper can lock down a squad.  It's insurance, basically.

Some of this is sort of moot with the tech we have- sods are supposed to all have DM level accuracy anyways, and even basic gauss rifles have a lethal range well past a thousand meters.  So really, it's just changing one sod's targeting priorities.

[Toaster]

But do flesh Sods need suits?


Let's think what the Mk I offers- near-perfect temperature insulation, and is pressurized for airless enviroments.  In terms of armor, it provides a bit of protection against blunt force trauma, but is basically useless against lasers and projectiles.


Considering these flesh Sods will be deployed on-planet, what exactly do they need the suit at all for?  In terms of liability, it adds that giant heat exchange fin on the back that is an extra point to be damaged.
 

[Radio Controlled]

Sorry for terribad formatting.  Again, phone.  :\

No worries bro, I post from my phone too from time to time, I know what it's like (it suuuucks).

True, they gain very little.  But if you deploy them alongside regulars it makes them much harder to target preferentially.

Are we sure they don't lose mobility, or that there aren't other possible unforseen drawbacks (like the cooling fan posing a dangerous weak point)? If not, sure, we can give them when the synthflesh sods are deployed alongside genemods. I don't see that happen on a regular basis, but it could certainly happen. I was more referring to just giving MkI's to every sod ever, including sods that are just garrisoning an unimportant outpost in the middle of nowhere (random example).

Also, nobody has ever directly tested if synthflesh bodies benefit from exoskeleton/MKIIIs.  I know that because it's something I've wanted to test since reading the OP, and have read pretty much every post since then, including tinkers.  There was a guy who fought synthflesh bodies wearing MKIII's at one point, but I don't think their rolls were shown.

It seems someone has some research to do 

You could give just a single sod per squad an MKI if you're really worried about bean counting.  Or even just the helmet, or a simple camera headband.  That would give a few video feeds, and still be really cheap.

The bean counting thing was more against giving suits when it ain't necessary. But for genemods that are suspected to face direct combat, giving MkI certainly sounds like it could be a good idea (if only to protect them form chemical weapons and certain environment hazards). There is also the small matter of those suits maybe hindering general performance (it's still a 'bulky' suit after all), but I doubt that. Though those cooling fins are still a problem.

@ sod marksmanship: you're right, I remember thinking that was weird when that happened. Dunno, might be PW fudging the rules a bit to prevent Bishop and Auron hiding the entire mission cause a sod would headshot them at first glance otherwise.

But sure, one sod that focuses on suppression/elimination of enemy infantry by taking a good position and snipin' away sounds practical. Which is another reason to have sod commanders: they could recognize and exploit such opportunities in the field by ordering their troopers into the correct positions/giving good orders to their sods on what to do. And if you need a grenadier to give medium-range firepower, he can always trade weapons with the commander or support sod.

Considering these flesh Sods will be deployed on-planet, what exactly do they need the suit at all for?  In terms of liability, it adds that giant heat exchange fin on the back that is an extra point to be damaged.

Indeed, but we're not just discussing the coming engagement, but how we design our sod army for ARM in general. There'll be other battles with vastly different circumstances in the future.

[Parisbre56]

When I asked, piecewise said exoskeleton and synthflesh bonuses do not stack. Except for the spinal column.

[Radio Controlled]

When I asked, piecewise said exoskeleton and synthflesh bonuses do not stack. Except for the spinal column.

Was he referring only to rolls though, or also to in-game reasons? I could see the bonuses not stacking due to otherwise breaking restrictive RTD gameplay, but maybe it would work for NPC's?

[Unholy_Pariah]

Internet failure ate my post

I want an infantry support tank that has a bigass shield on the front wide enough for 2 columns of sods to hide behind it on each side that is coated with laserproof crystal and contains powerful magnetic devices to deflect gauss rounds.

Also i have a tinker repository in my sig for completed designs so that piecewise doesnt have to rummage thtough the threads when he forgets the details of your invention which he inevitably will, so remember to add them.

So a moving shield, basically? Cause a battlesuit with that shield the AM designed could do that.

Also, it might be better to centralize this kind of info on the wiki. In fact, do you object to having this copied into the armory section of the wiki? That way people won't have to search around for information.

Not exactly, i want it to still be a tank complete with energy cannon. Itd be more like lukas holding a battlesuit shield.

Personally i prefer google docs over the wiki for ease of editing (and i cant read the wiki on my phone) but feel free to copy its contents over if you really want to.