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[MuseOD]

I want to kill two birds with one stone: a roc and a giant eagle...
I kid.
What I want to do is to have a 20~ z-level tall tower at the top of which is a trade depot and a few floors beneath that is a bridge. This bridge is placed in such a way as that one could only access the trade depot by crossing the bridge. The bridge would move away, and gobbos would fall the 20 z-levels to their death.
My question is; how do I build a depot at the top of a 7*7 tower?

[ColdOneK]

the only way for caravans to go up z-lvls is with ramps
and ramps need a wall next to them to function

also I'm pretty sure the moment they enter the map, is when they start counting to when they leave...if that makes sense
lastly, you should consider making it so there is a central stair case on the inside of the tower to allow dwarves to travel somewhat quickly up it, when delivering trade goods
just so when broker stops afk'ing, he can quickly go to the depot to trade

you could make the stairs at the outer corners of the tower, so it's easier to do the goblin carpet bombing thing - just make sure to wall off the stairs up, so dwarves don't get spooked or w/e

[MuseOD]

How do you build the depot at the top, though? From what I gather, it needs a complete floor beneath it, and to do that, there needs to be loads of walls on the penultimate z-level.

[zilpin]

Sounds like you're new to constructions.
The Wiki is your friend:
Constructions
Trade Depot
Defense: Trade Depot & Caravans
Security Design

[zilpin]

Here is one possible naive implementation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

=  Bridge
+  Floor
X  Up-Down Stair
>  Ramp Down
<  Ramp Up
D  Depot
W Wall
F  Fortifications
--------------------------------
Depot Z-Level -1:

WWWWWWWW
W+++X++W
W++++++W
W++++++W<+=========++++ (this goes to area outside fort, to map edge)
WX+++++W<+=========++++
W++++++W<+=========++++
W++++++W
W+++X++W
WWWWWWWW

--------------------------------
Depot Z-Level:

WWWWWWWWW
W+++X+++W
W+DDDDD+WW
W+DDDDD+>W
WXDDDDD+>W
W+DDDDD+>W
W+DDDDD+WW
W+++X+++W
WWWWWWWWW

--------------------------------
Depot Z-Level  +1 (optional defenses):

WWWWWWWWW
W+++X+++W
W+++++++W
W+++++++F
WX++++++F
W+++++++F
W+++++++W
W+++X+++W
WWWWWWWWW




There are many better ways to do this.

Note that better defenses could be built (eg., reverse battlement from above).
Also note that putting a 1x3 bridge above the ramp, then retracting it by lever, lets you cover the entrance in an emergency (eg. the outside bridge fails to retract due to heavy creature on it).

[MuseOD]

Thanks

[MuseOD]

But zilpin, I don't think I explained myself well enough. The idea is a tower built out of chalk or obsidian or granite. The tower is hollow to facilitate a fall. How do I build the depot at the top? Beacause as far as I know you can't build on floors, only on the top of walls.

Is it efficient to  first build a solid tower then hollow it out internally?

[ColdOneK]

I'm terrible at ascii, but lemme try...
                                   /-WWWW
                      /-WWWW
_____/-WWWW

with 3 wide ramps spiralling up the outside of the tower, then near the top, have it cut through the middle, and create a long wide retractable bridge
and when goblins are on it, retract it, so they plummet to their doom
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL   
RRRWWWWWWWWRRR
LLLWXW       WXWLLL
LLLWWW      WWWLLL
GGGWBBBBBBBBBBWLLL
GGGWBBBBBBBBBBWLLL
GGGWBBBBBBBBBBWLLL
GGGWWW      WWWLLL
RRRWXW       WXWLLL
FFFWWWWWWWWRRR
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
G-highest floor
F-loor
L-ower floors
R-amp
W-all
X-ward stairs

so the only time they move through the middle, is when moving over the bridge

of course you can build the depot on floor constructions...

[zilpin]

...Beacause as far as I know you can't build on floors, only on the top of walls.  ...

Let's be clear that we're talking about Constructing in empty space, not Designating miners to carve rock.
You can build any construction adjacent to any load-bearing tile.  So a floor can be built next to a wall, or in the space above-and-beside the edge of the wall's top.  A floor can also be constructed next to a staircase, or another floor.
Ramps to NOT support tiles above, but DO support tiles adjacent on the same (bottom) z-level.
Please go read Constructions in the Wiki.

... Is it efficient to  first build a solid tower then hollow it out internally?

This can not be done with Constructions.  Designations and Constructions work very differently.


Think about it this way, first construct the up+down staircase all the way up to your top z-level.
Then you can construct floors & walls out from it anywhere you like.

Please go read Constructions in the Wiki.
The Wiki is a great resource, and explains everything you want to do.

[SixOfSpades]

The difficulty is knowing the difference between Buildings and Constructions.

Constructions are things like Walls, Floors, Ramps, Stairs, Fortifications, etc. These cannot be built on top of other Constructions on the same z-level: You cannot build a Wall in a spot where there is already a constructed Floor tile.

Buildings are things like Masonry Workshops, Kitchens, Magma Forges, Screw Pumps, Beds--and Trade Depots. These can be built atop Constructions on the same z-level: You can build a fully functioning Trade Depot on a large expanse of constructed Floor tiles, without a supporting Wall anywhere nearby.

[MuseOD]

@SixOfSpades
Huh. Interesting.
Thanks a lot.

[Geldrin]

Fun fact: Wagons doesn't need usable ramps, the only restriction is that the ramp must bee three tiles wide. The pack-animals and the caravan guards are fine with a single tile wide stairway.

I observed merchants going down on the stairs to leave the map on the cavern level multiple times.

[zilpin]

Fun fact: Wagons doesn't need usable ramps, the only restriction is that the ramp must bee three tiles wide. The pack-animals and the caravan guards are fine with a single tile wide stairway.
I observed merchants going down on the stairs to leave the map on the cavern level multiple times.

The statement «Wagons doesn't need usable ramps» needs clarification.
Wagons absolutely need ramps that wagons can use.
Please reference DF Wiki: Wagon

Merchants and pack animals can use stairs, but if wagons have no navigable path then goods in the wagons are left off-map (so you can't get).

If you're new to DF, don't try too hard on all the tricks.
Focus on making a fort last through 1 year before it dies.
Then 2 before that one dies.
Then 5.
Then, maybe, plan a defense more interesting than lockdown... before that one dies from a tantrum spiral.

Always remember: Losing is ‼☼FUN☼‼